Elephant : What's Your Story?

What's Your Story?

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 06:01:27 -0700

Subject: What's your story?

Drunk, addict, child, cop, victim, parent, social worker, sibling, social worker, judge, codependent, advocate or President, we've all got a story to add to the medicine wheel.

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From: "Paula Bundy"

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:13:40 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

A fellow worker emailed the the information to me today about "Saving Carrick" to be aired on Dateline tomorrow evening. I was very pleased.

We have been going through a "living hell" with our son, Ben, who will turn 20 on 9/8/05. We began noticing changes in him during his Junior Year of high school. He began hanging around with a pretty rough crowd, became involved with a girl who has BiPolar Disorder who had lots of friends on probation or in jail, etc.

He was arrested on a DV complaint the day after Mother's Day in 2004. We were told to throw him out of the house as he wasn't abiding by our rules, etc., skipping school, etc. and then when he was arrested the court mandated he live with us It's very hard to detach when it is court ordered.

He continued to smoke pot even during his pretiral sentence, etc. That was just the tip of the iceberg. We found out after his hearing 9/23/04 he began using all kinds of toehr drugs, except Heroin. He has threatened and tried suicide many times, was in a 5 day inpatient program in March/2005, etc. In and out of highs and lows with his girlfriend who also has a baby now, that she reports is Ben's. The problem is they were not going out last year when she became pregnant and she will not do a Paternity Test and talked him into signing an Affidavit of Paternity.

The good news is we saw him getting worse and worse. In April of this year he began searching for a program. We live in NH and treatment is not that great and is few and far between.

He was busted on June 13 for a bowl pack of pot on his person at about 12:30 a.m. on his Dad's birthday. His girlfriend and another girl was with him. Ben was driving. So, you can only guess what that means and he was on probation. June 17 he was arrested by his PPO and taken to a County Jail.

July 7 at his Probation Violation Hearing his court appointed attorney cut a deal for Ben to attend a program in Florida for 6 months to a year. He has to have a successful complet ion and stay clean or go back to jail for a year and he has a year's good behavior also. He left 7/8/05 and we hired an off duty corrections officer to fly to Florida with him so that we would not be in the middle so to speak.

The girlfriend got nothing, no arrest-no fine, as she pulled her Bipolar act on the local police officers, said she was on Lithium & that's why she acted the way she did, etc. They took her to her mother's home, where I might add they do all kinds of drugs & alcohol & give it to other young people. They also grow Marijuana at the residence. Local Police have done nothing because the mother is also Bipolar and has breast cancer. However, the girlfriend has her own apartment and she has a trust fund that pays for everything, including the drugs she bought for herself, her friends, and our son

Our local DCYF authorities hands are tied regarding taking the baby away because they do not feel the baby is in "immenent danger"

We hope the distance will be good for our son. Our family has begun attending NA meetings and Al-Anon meetings.

I look forward to watching the program. God Bless you all - I shall hold you close in my heart and pray for the Recovery movement to have stronger voice.

Sincerely,

Paula

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From: Jennifer

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:43:58 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I linked in through MSNBC - so glad to see the honesty, the painfully familiar story. Most familiar of all is the web of lies so thick and fluid that reality becomes a moving target - impossible to focus on.

My sister is an addict. Of what? Crack for sure, heroin, pot, oxycontin, anything and everything that offers a momentary escape. She has lost everything, her home, her children, her life - and yet cannot even fathom that she has done this herself. According to her, she doesn't touch drugs - even when we found her the drugs on her. She is the ultimate victim.

I love her and forgive her. However I cannot talk to her. It is all lies, and accusations, confusion and "spinning" a story. I feel like I am walking on a rickety bridge when we speak. One gust of wind, and you can easily go over.

Her children are with us, beautiful and wounded, innocent and angry all at the same time. Incredibly, unflinchingly loyal to her. Only now, a year after they were taken from her, are they opening up. They have lied and covered for her for years. She hocked their toys, birthday presents - they have seen her do awful things.

Have you ever gotten the stomach flu? Before you know it, you are throwing up and in agony. Later when it passes, you think back and realize that there were little hints that it was coming your way. You couldn't eat lunch, you were exhausted, etc. It seems like a strange comparison, but I feel that way now.

For over 10 years every single member of my family (me included) has ignored growing signs and problems. Now that the big, giant, ugly truth is here - I think to myself how could I have been so blind all these years?

How could I have done that, especially when there were children involved?

Sorry to unload here. This was the last place I thought I would end up tonight.

I will watch the episode for sure, and thanks so much for sharing your journey.

Jennifer

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From: Jlynn57

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:59:38 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Paula,

I can relate to your story. As my son sits in jail, there are many people I can think of who should be in there too But, where are they? Out on the street doing whatever they please. I can feel for you. It always seemed as though my son was the "one" getting caught and paying for his actions. But I still believe that God does truly works in mysterious ways. I feel that our sons are having a real life learning experience that God could use for their good and the goods of others. Who knows, maybe they will be counselors one day. We never know. And the people who didn't pay for their crime, will possibly continue on in life in their own purgatory

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From: "Sharon Berg"

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:30:45 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I am looking forward to seeing your story tonight; I have lived it and for 8 more years than you. Just be careful. My parents tried for too many years to save my sister, and it hurt everyone just so so much. We were also a family of 2 parents and 2 children. But one child took up 1000% of everything. I have a 24 year old daughter and I just don't know what I would do in my parents' or your circumstances. I say a prayer every day that so far I have not had to make that decision.

I am 60 years old. I have (had) a sister 8 years younger, parents, niece and nephew, daughter and granddaughter. Sis is an alcoholic and heroin addict since 14. All my parents' time, money, love, attention and emotions (their very lives) went to enabling her and saving her -- from herself. They lived very frugally, brought up her two kids and denied there was a big problem. She and her "friends" stole from us all, and not just money. Dad died at 85 in 2003. Sis got mom to sell her house of 55 years in 2004 and took her away. I never saw my mom or any of my family again. If I called, my sister would scream obscenities. My mother died at 84 in December of 2004. No one told my daughter or me. We found out from something posted on the internet and then visited the cemetery and found her headstone, in July 2005, nine months after her death. I don't know how to deal with this. On the one hand, I am relieved that the violence and abuse is over for my parents sake. On the other hand, I am so angry that my mother was put through more abuse the last months of her life. But I am also angry that she abandoned me and her granddaughter and left us with no answers although I am sure she did it to save us from more harm. My sister is violent. I have many times been afraid for my life. My sister with money (my parents') scares me even more. The last two years are a blur and a nightmare. I feel like I am in shock. My daughter and I talked a lot about wh at to do and hoped we would one day get a call from "grandma". I spok e to my mom every day of my life until she disappeared with my sister. I don't know what to do.

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From: dukes327

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:53:49 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I saw "Saving Carrick" tonight. It was almost like watching my life with different faces. My husband and I are also recovering alcoholics, 23 and 24 years respectively. My beautiful, intelligent, engaging daughter Katie, 18 years old and pregnant, living with her father and her druggie boyfriend, overdosed November 13, 2005 in her own bed with her boyfriend, who was also stoned, in the same room.

Two weeks before her death, I emailed her, begging her to go into rehab, that I was greatly concerned about her and her unborn son. I told her I considered her drug use to be child abuse and that I had to be the voice of her unborn son, since he had no voice. And that if necessary, I would call DYFS to protect her baby, and possibly force her into rehab. She of course, lied, telling me that she was not using. I wanted to believe her.

I did not follow through. And two weeks later, my husband and my pastor knocked on my door at 9:00 am Saturday November 13, 2 005 with the words a parent of a drug user/addict dread hearing. My child, who was having a child was dead from an overdose. In one fell swoop I lost a child and a grandchild. I am devastated. I am lost.

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From: "mike liegert"

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:36:55 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

When my wife and I watched the story everything came back of what we went through with our son.He is a great kid and a great athlete and person.The hardest thing I have ever done was have him arrested before I find him dead of an overdose or suicide.We experienced almost the same thing the Forbes family when through.It was just tearing us apart that Colby could do something like this.We tryed a treatment program at first and it only worked for a couple of months and then came along his old friends if that's what you want to call them to lead him back to the dark side.He has been serving time since December 16th and is doing very well and attending classes.the hardest part for him was the first two weeks of de-tox,because there was no where to get it.We love him very much and always will.The big question for me is,would he still be alive if I would have let him go.I enjoyed the Forbes story very much.It really hit home.

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From: Jersey

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:42:52 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I am a maintenance counselor at a methadone clinic. I have patients who have used for over 25 years or less than 5 years. Most of the patients have hepatitis or TB due to their usage. I have patients that started with pain killers and then graduated to heroin. I have others that never tried pain killers and went straight to heroin. Some patients have family supporting them and others don't. We have patients that have been in the program for over 5 years and still use. Others that no longer use. There is no prediction when it comes to opiates. The advice I can give is don't give up. If you have a family member or a friend using heroin and have used for sometime methadone and counseling is the best treatment. Detox is not suggested because most detox patients relapse due to withdraws. Most clinics require that a patient go through 2 detoxs before they can go on maintenance (counseling with methadone) unless they are IV users. Methadone eliminates the physical withd raw symptoms but not the mental addiction. I do my best to help them overcome the mental addiction. It is not easy but, it is not impossible. An addict is an addict forever. The craving cant be eliminated only contained. Mr. Forbes I thank you for your story on dateline. I hope my patients watched the program along with their families.

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From: Roberta

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 23:39:38 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

My mouth still can't quite get around the words: "My daughter is a heroin addict". It is reality, but still very hard to deal with. How can a girl with so much promise end up sticking needles in her arm? My mind has gone over a thousand reasons, and in the end it is just fruitless. I keep coming back to the reality of her addiction and what it is doing to her.

She is 20 years old and has been shooting heroin off and on for about 2 years. "Off and on" means she stops when the police are involved, or she goes to rehab or a half-way house, or cons herself into believing she can quit on her own. She predictably relapses soon after, without ever getting to the root of her problem. She has a hard time dealing with her negative feelings, low self-esteem, etc. It is a vicious cycle that is getting her nowhere fast.

In spite of all the help she has had access to, she continues to use. I am trying hard to have faith that she will see what this is doing to her future. She is an intelligent, but lost soul right now. It is hard to watch someone you love go down the drain slowly, and be powerless to fix the situation. Sometimes I think: "She can numb her feelings with heroin, but I have to deal with my fears about her health and recovery cold-turkey" I continue to pray, keep the lines of communication open, let her find her "bottom", and not allow her to use me to prolong her addiction. It's all I can do right now--I wish it was more.

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From: nicksmom

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 00:17:52 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Were do I begin, if I was to begin from the start there is not enough space My heart goes out to all that have endured the pains of a child going through addiction. :frown: The biggest fear that I had was that I would get that horriable call that he had overdosed and died. I took my son's addiction personal. Where did I fail as a parent? I did what I thought was best. I was called an enabler. But ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I don't think there are any wrongs or rights.

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From: JoAnn

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:17:25 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I honestly do not know if my child is an addict. When I met with his psychiatrist I was told I would know nothing because of privacy laws. I have to rely on my 16 year old son to tell me. There's an old saying: "If it quacks like a duck, it is a duck." Well, my son quacks like an addict. He lies, he runs away, he steals, his personality has changed and he is no longer the sweet boy I knew. He ran away 10 days ago. This is the 6th time.

I've decided to not smoke him out or hunt him down. I've decided to wait until he comes home. I'm torn with anxiety and depression. I think I am strong enough mentally to do the right thing. But I have no idea what the right thing is. Do I let him find his way? Do I wait or hunt him down?

The worst part is part of me doesn't want him to come home. I feel as though I'm drowning when he is home. He takes my every waking moment. He is demanding and rude. I have a younger son to care for. No one will help us. Doctors cite privacy laws. I have no family. I am battling depression and health problems.

I think I have convinced myself that while he is away I will get physically stronger, I will work hard to make money, I will concentrate on taking care of my other son. When I am better able to handle him again, maybe then I will search for him. Maybe then I will have the tools to help him. Maybe he will come home then and I will be able to help him.

But the real truth is I'm sinking into depression and despair and the heartache of his being away is harder than the heartache of him being home. I have not gone out or answered the phone in these past 10 days. I couldn't answer if anyone asked me where he is or how he is. My psychiatrist wanted to up my depression meds, but I said no. The dose I am on now makes me feel sleepy.

I feel like a failure. These past 16 years when no one wanted anything to do with my son: his dad abandoned him (probably to hide his gay lifestyle), he has adhd and hasn't been able to make friends, he was thrown out of school and I was forced to homeschool him, his boss fired him after I discovered this boss was using my son to buy his cocaine and confronted him; when no one wanted anything to do with my son, I was strong and hopeful and kept trying new avenues. All along I had a feeling that my son would make it and become hugely successful and that we could show all of them how wrong they were for rejecting my son. And we would forgive everyone and live happily ever after.

Insert huge sobbing here.

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From: "Christina Carhart"

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:05:59 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

long story short: am a 23 year old heroin addict. i was shooting between $50 and &100 worth of heroin everyday for two years. finally i got into trouble and had to get clean, although i didn't really want to. i hated the lifestyle but still loved the high. my sobriety lasted for about 8 months. 2 two months ago i relapsed. yesterday i took a look around at my disgusting drug riddled apartment and decided that if i didn't get out right then and there my life would pass me by. i am now detoxing (28 hrs. clean). everytime i start to think about getting high i come to this website until it passes. you may be saving my life. thank you.

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From: "leslie dyer"

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:25:45 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Christina

I will be praying for you You CAN do it:))))))))) I love you

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From: "Chris Kelly"

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:09:18 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Alejandra is 37 - and an early methadone success story, though it took her years to accept the role of the medication in her life. She had been troubled since childhood, extremely bright, but extremely oversensitive. Half puerto rican and half irish she grew up in a wealthy family in Westchester county. As she tells it "my mother used to say that I was more finely tuned than anyone. I heard noises louder and saw colors more vividly. I walked differently through the world."

At age 13, when her parents divorced, she picked up drugs and by 14 was injecting heroin. She got arrested and her parents picked her up after a night in jail. "With heroin" she said "I felt normal, it made me feel safe. And in a state where I could communicate with other people. I didnt feel these raging hormones or these raging emotions, everything was tuned down. I felt naked and vulnerable and desperate without it."

Because of her family's status, she was allowed to enter a methadone program for treatment at that time, even though she was only 15. Her first experience with methadone was extremely positive - she stopped using heroin, graduated from high schoo and went off to BU. Gradually, she cut her methadone dose to zero and graduated from college with honors. However, while attending NYU law school she became deeply depressed and disillusioned. She starte using cocaine and when a longterm relationship ended, she became again addicted to heroin.

"Now I was using alone, which I had never done. I felt sleazy. It was always worst to me when the sun was coming up in the morning, you've exhausted your resources, you feel dirty and disgusting and the rest of the world is just waking up to a brand new day."

She did not want to return to methadone, however - seeing it as admitting defeat. When things got really bad however, she did.

"I finally got on the methadone program"

Methadone allowed her to stabilize her life. Though the counseling at the program she attended was a mixed bag (one counselor had an affair with her, others were abusive, but some were helpful) the medication itself helped her to distance herself from the street scene. She met a man who was not a drug user and got married. She kept believing that she could not get on with her life unless she got off methadone, however.

"I always qualified it with 'when I get off methadone....." I still believed that this was a temporary thing. I resented it. Ifelt like crap for being on it, I wouldnt' go back to law school until I got off of it because I didnt' trust my mental facilities. You name it, anything that was wrong with me I blamed on the methadone".

Finally, carefully, she detoxed after several years and went into a 28 day rehab. Shortly before she would have had her first year "drug free" however, she relapsed and fell into despair. Returning to the methadone program, she resolved not to let it be an excuse. She began to see methadone as a medication that could help an imbalance in her neurochemistry, rather than a recreational drug that she was "bad" for wanting. Sh read the research and found that her beliefs about methadone impairing her abilities were false. She returned to law school, got her degree and is now practicing. "I do believe that methadone saved my life".

From "Recovery Options - The Complete Guide - How You and Your Loved Ones Can Understand and Treat Alcohol and other Drug Problems by J. Volpicelli and M. Szalavitz, John Wiley & Sons, published in 2000.

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From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:55:34 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Christina,

As they say, keep coming back. There's really only one reason for this site, and it's for people like us to sustain each other.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

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From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:23:45 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

"I wanted to believe her," you write. It's a theme that rings so true with me and, I suspect, with so many others who are reading it here. We are just very fortunate that our outcome ? today, right now ? is different than yours. I grieve with you; I also hope you will accept that it was not your fault that your daughter ODed.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

From: mick

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:58:11 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

We're so happy that you were able to accomplish what we couldn't. We've been going through this with our daughter Samantha for over 4 years. We tried getting the attention of our great governer of Arizonas attention, the local media etc. and nobody would take notice of it. We were even looking online to see if anyone would want to do a story or have us on their talk show about it. But nothing happened. Now we've lost her back at her mothers place in Tucson and hope that someday she will end up being sick and tired of being sick and tired. We still talk to her but she knows that she too is no longer allowed here at our house until she can confirm that she has had counseling or rehab of some sort. My fiance found this site through the MSNBC news videos and we had to watch it. God has it hit home. Our whole family is in recovery and our daughter samantha has been around the 12 step program since she was a child also. We hope and pray someday that she will get the help she needs . She got so strung out on Crystal Meth that everything that your story was about was the same thing with us and her. Keep up the good work and tell carrick to hang in there and just stay focused on the one day at a time issue. God Bless all of you for finally being able to get something like this out into the public and for establishing this web site.

Mick and Petra Gollihue

p.s. Petra and I are getting married this December and we were hoping that samantha would make it. However we have stipulated that if she isn't 110% cleaned up by then, that she won't be allowed to attend, not matter how hard it is on us.

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From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:35:51 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mick and Petra,

Remember the old parental saying of “this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you?” It usually referred to some type of corporal punishment. I think turning your child out of your life is the biggest hurt we can do to ourselves for the sake of saving our children.

Carrick and I had the honor to visit and speak at a sober house called “WINR’s” (Women in New Recovery) in Mesa, AZ this past February. The “Our Common Welfare,” organization invited us to speak at their Recovery Day celebration. It was an incredible experience for both of us. Many of the women were recovering Meth addicts. It was the first time we were faced with that type of addiction. While I know 2 meth labs have been busted in rural New York State, the drug has not reached here in anywhere the same capacity as it has out your way. And what a drug it is WINR’s was such a warm, suppoprtive environment for learning how to get and stay sober and find a life worth living. Perhaps your daughter might look into it. It’s founder Patricia Henderson, is a most amazing, energetic and forceful woman who cares so much about sharing sobriety

Don’t forget your wedding day is for you to honor each other no matter what. But I’ll send good thoughts your way in hopes she’s allowed and welcomed.

Deirdre

From: "Elsa Holderness"

Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:37:41 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Unfortunately, I have just found out about "Saving Carrick" that aired on Friday night. If anyone would be willing to send me a copy of their tape, I would appreciate it tremendously.

My story involves my husband, Jason. We have been married for a little over a year and it is true that marriage does not fix anything. We have been strugging with his addiction (and my co-dependency) for nearly 4 years. Oxycontin was his first drug of choice, then after a few rehabs, heroin overtook him.

His family and I have struggled to always do the right thing and the best thing for Jason. We've tried rapid detox (something that I would never recommend to anyone now that I understand addiction), rehabs - some reasonably priced, another the best of the best. He's been a member of NA, had a sponsor, tried seeing an addiction therapist, and nothing has made a great enough impact.

We are now attempting "tough love". I have kicked him out of our home, cut him off financia lly and have told him that he needs to get his life together. I just cannot find the strength to not answer the phone when he calls. I need to know that he's ok, safe, alive I know that if things don't get very uncomfortable for him, he will die.

Can you share how you've found the strength to cut all ties with your addicts? And if anyone has had an experience with a spouse being a heroin addict, could you share with me how you've learned to trust them again, or if that's even possible.

I'm lost, confused and frightened. Every day I wake up and hope that this is really not my life. But, I know that it is and am having a hard time accepting it.

Thanks and God Bless,

Elsa

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From: Abbegirl

Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:58:52 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I just wanted to post a brief introduction and a very sincere thank you for sharing your story My name is Mary and I abused prescription pain pills for about four years before beginning treatment in a methadone clinic. I couldn't have stayed clean for the past almost 90 days now without methadone. I'm a married mother of a five year old and my husband does not believe addiction is a "disease". Your line in the Dateline story about not worrying about your son inheriting the addictive genes really helped him understand what I've been telling him this whole time. My addiction esculated out of control when my husband was overseas in Iraq and I had to a lot of responsibilities that I didn't feel that I could keep up with. I think you are beyond brave in sharing your story and I'm very thankful that you did. It was great that my husband sat down and watched it with me, it really helped him understand and I'm sure it has helped many

God bless

Mary

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From: polly1283

Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:03:46 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

"Saving Carrick" led me to your website, Thom, and I have been amazed at the stories and comments from so many others. Our son started Oxycontin during his second semester in college. From there he progressed to heroin and it has been a long 2 1/2 years of learning the many intricacies of the drug world, a place we never wanted to know about. Knowledge brought fear, pain, sorrow and the intense desire to "fix" it for our son. At 22, he has finally become entangled with the law, spent two months in a county jail and learned the value of "freedom". He is presently in his 5th rehab, will go on to a sober living environment and try, once again, to build a life. For the first time, we are seeing some growth and new changes in his life. We are, again, hopeful...but guarded. We have finally learned how to let go without giving up on him. Like many of your writers, we have envisioned his demise and feel so utterly helpless and alone in our grief. We did not know how to reac h others in our situation. We so desperately wanted to talk to someone, anyone about our pain, but found Alanon to be lacking (for us). So it has been so good for us to read the responses on this site. So many experiences like ours, so many others know the grief. I wonder if you know how important your sharing of Carrick has been to so many of us? Thank you for this site and for all of your sharing.

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From: tami

Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 11:30:05 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Here I am today, and this is my story. I am 45 years old and have been in recovery from alcohol(my drug of choice)since May 15th 1999. I started drinking and smoking pot at 16. I raised three children through a broken marriage,two totally disfunctional live ins,many nights of parties and mostly blackouts. Not to mention the police records. And being on probation wasn't enough to stop the desire to get drunk and drive. It took the long arm of God to reached down and place me in a jail cell long enough to start over. After a jailed 9 months waiting for a court date,(time did me, because I did not have control anymore, anger,bitterness,self-pity, just outright hate) I was sentenced to a 9 month stay in a Texas Substance Abuse Treatment Facility.(To where I did the time, looking for a new way to live with hope,faith and love)then to be released to a Half-Way house for three months and then 6 to 9 months of aftercare. Which consisted of 4 to 6 meetings of various sorts a week. My children then ages 13 to 16 ( a crucial time for teens) were relocated to their father who was as disfunctional as I was. It looks like the children don't have a chance of normalcy, doesn't it? But wait,when I got back to my home after 18 months of confinement, I was indeed the only one who had changed. They did not have an idea of who or how I was. We all had to get to know each other again. My children, well they still have lots of learning and living to do. But now, they have a choice. I can only testify that by example(my life today)was the only way they would be able to see The Choice. I wish that I could say that this story has a happy ending but folks, it doesn't. I followed my heart and began college to get a license in drug and alcohol counseling in Jan. 2004. I was about to do finals when on April 22 2004 my oldest son, now 21, was killed in an alcohol related accident. He was the passenger and one of his dearest friends, his killer. More than IRONIC My young est son 17,at the time of this tragedy was just entering into the same treatment center I had experienced just three year earlier. My youngest sons drug of choice, crack/Meth. He has been out of the half way house since Feb.2005 and will now spend his 19th B-Day locked up again. My second child, a daughter now 21, does not have any addictions. She is a single mother, works as an asst manager, lives in her own apartment, pays her own bills, drives her own car and attends church when she can. I can only say that as a counselor(someday) I have the life experience to help someone else. The best we can do is SPEAK UP about the effects of drugs and alcohol as we know it. I never used heroin,oxicoton,never was a huffer and never tried some of the "get highs" kids use today. "My day"(the kinds of drugs and such)is long gone but the effects of abuse on lives remains the same. Today I have turned anger and bitterness into determination and purpose.

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From: Lexy

Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 20:17:29 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I was addicted to pain pills and ativan for 25 years... I went to rehab and got completely off them, but when I went home, I felt terrible... dizzy, odd, mixed up... I stayed off of them, but didnt feel like "myself" or "normal"... soooooooo I went to a doctor and got back on them... after 3 years..

I felt GREAT....

this went on for 6 more years, THEN the doctor I was going to for the Rx's, announced he was addicted to pain medication and was closing his practice to go to Rehab...JUST LIKE THAT, I had no more "pills"....panic is a mild word for what I felt.....but I was already getting so sick, going into withdrawal, that I couldnt do anything about it...My husband had had enough of it, and completely ignored me... but this was the best thing that could have happened to me.....

it took me 16 days, before I could close my eyes... I shook, vomited, fainted, oh all kinds of terrible awful horrible things, until the third week, and then I finally fell asleep for the FIRST TIME...

to make this long story short, I stayed at home for 2 years, basically, completely getting off all these drugs..and getting them out of my system.....

its now 5 years later, and I havent even been to a doctor since the day my doctor left... we moved from that city, and are in a new one, and I tend my garden, play with my pets , read, etc etc....and feel better, and happier than I ever have...I do take Aleve for aches and pains, otherwise I dont take anything.. AT ALL.. There might be a gazillon things wrong with me, but I dont know it and am doing fine, NOT knowing it....I know its probably wrong, but I do not ever want to be tempted again by a doctor offering me pills....so I dont go to ANY...all I can say is, so far, so good ...

I dont drink, never did....my journey started with those first pills prescribed to me after neck surgery... at 24 years old...

thank god I have these years to enjoy life , REAL LIFE...

Lexy :smile:

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From: CarlaS

Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:05:44 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

My childhood was riddled with alcohol, emotional, and physical abuse. I was raised by a single parent that was consumed by her own selfish addictions, so much she couldn't focus enough to give attention to her child. Today, I understand her more than ever, and in my heart she is forgiven. Within those walls of what was called home, my hopelessness began at a very tender age.

My troubles with life began very early. I can honestly say I was using drugs/alcohol as early as the 6th grade. In my mind, either nobody noticed, or nobody cared. I became pregnant at 15, and I kept my daughter. She was what would initially begin to give me hope, yet tear me and my mother apart. I think I became what my mother feared most for herself. At some point she quit drinking, but never dealt with her other issues, and for the most part still lives in denial, under a cloud of her own percieved false reality.

I'll make a long story short, as I couldn't even begin to tell a ll the horrors of my life. At 26, I had another child. I was already lost in my own addictions of alcohol, crack cocaine, or whatever else would numb me. When my son was a year old, child protection services stepped in, and my children were placed in temporary foster care with family. I was alone, lived on the streets, and was totally consumed with one thing and one thing only...using.

I can't pinpoint any one thing that finally made me make the choice to turn my back on my addictions, and trust enough to make the needed changes. I worked out a long term care plan, and followed through. It wasn't easy, and it wasn't fast. I found myself, came to terms with my issues, learned better ways to live, and live has grown well beyond what I could have ever possibly imagined.

My daughter, now 20, is happily married and started a family of her own. She is well equipped, but not immune to what addictions can do to oneself, and those your own life touches. My s on, now 9, may be my toughest conquest yet. I talk to him constantly about what life was like then, in comparison to what is now. How those choices I made in the past, still have bearing on our lives this far down the road. He suffers from AD/HD, and has other issues to deal with. I can only hope that genetically he doesn't go the route I went. I wouldn't want anyone to have to go through what I have, yet I embrace it all because it is what has made me the strong person I am today.

I'll end with saying that all the love in the world cannot save someone from themselves. One can only help those that are willing to help themselves. It's tough on parents to see through the lies, and chaos that addiction brings, but remember no matter how hard it gets, in your childrens hearts there is a desire to stop the madness however clouded by addiction it may seem. But, they themselves have to be willing to come to terms with it all, and want to make the needed changes.

Blessings to everyone that has to go through this process thems elves, or with the ones they love. Thanks to Forbes' for having the strength to put the spotlight on these life trials, that others just want to sweep under the rug.

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From: MaryW

Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:47:56 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I have a 19 year son who is determined to kill himself with alcohol. There is a long history of alcoholism between both mine and my husband's family.

I believe this all started, but I am certainly not putting all blame on, when Danny was on the Pee Wee football team. I have two sons close in age and was running back and forth to 2 different games. My husband was traveling quite often this summer. The assistant coach for Danny?s team confronted me when he noticed me arranging drop offs and pick ups he volunteered to help out with picking Danny up and dropping him off as he was going to the games as well. I was so thankful to have this help. Until one evening at the end of the season, Danny called me and asked if he could sleep over this man?s house, the assistant coach, at first I said no. When I mentioned this to my husband he put a stop to it all. Danny was 10 years old. Later on, Danny would inform us that this guy would give him pot if he would make cert ain catches during the game. After the PEE WEE football season, this Assistant Coach would supply my son with the ?very best weed? so he could share it with his friends.

When my son Danny was a sophomore at high school, my husband got a call from a police officer at Danny?s High School. The Officer befriended Danny. I would like to commend this officer because when he saw a young teenager starting to spin out of control, he took the time to talk to this kid. He tried to steer him in the right direction. The Officer witnessed a lot more than we, his parents, did at this time. The Officer took it upon himself to call my husband at work to inform him that he was very concerned with Danny?s drug use. He told my husband that of all the students, he believed that our son was the worst drug user in this school. My husband and I decided to take him to an inpatient facility, Clearbrook, Pennslyvania, for a 30 day inpatient facility.

After release from his inp atient stay, he was encouraged to attend 30 AA meetings in 30 days. M y husband and I took turns driving him back and forth to the teen meetings within our area. At some point a 29 year old man approached my son, during a meeting. . My son is very good looking boy, to the point of almost pretty. This 29 year old man who attended young teen meetings was nothing but a predator. He would scan the room looking for boys who he thought really didnt want to be there, but their parents made them. He befriended my son. Both my husband and I have lived with recovered alcoholic parents and thought it nothing unusual for his sponsor to constantly call and pick him up. At this time we thought it would be wrong to insist on going out to the car to meet with him. Having full knowledge of the importance of anomynity within the AA group. My son at this time was 16 years old. This person, lived in a ?sober house? which is a residential house where the residents are recovering alcoholics and must continue to be sober to receive financial assistance for rent and utilities.

A few weeks after Danny met Nate, he started staying out to 2:00, 3:00, 4:00 am on weekday nights. When we questioned him, he claimed to be playing cards all night with sober people from AA. Danny, a Junior in high school could not get up in the morning, no matter how hard we tried. We would continuosly try to get him out of bed but it was impossible to wake him at all. Eventually a warrant was put out on Danny for truancy.

Nate, had introduced my son to meth ampethimines, crack cocaine, ectasy, and male prostitution. Nate took my son, who was 16 years old, across state line to Maryland and introduced to a 40 something year old man and who offered Danny 400 dollars to allow another 40 man in to preform oral sex on him.

One day after Danny was up all night on meth ampethamine he decided to go to school. As soon as Danny got there, the Officer handcuffed him, called me, and asked me to meet him at the Juvenile Court Facili ty. In my mind Danny was still my child and no one could take care of him like I could. Once reaching the Juvenile Court facility, the probation officer pulled me into an office and explained that she would like to have Danny detained in the Less Secure Facility until his next court date. In my mind Danny was still my child and no one could take care of him like I could. I told the probation officer that I thought this was an extreme measure to be taken against a child who has been arrested for truancy. At this time, the Officer asked me to take a walk to his patrol car. As I explained earlier, Danny liked and trusted this Officer. On the drive down to the courthouse that morning, Danny was very high on crystal meth and was talking a whole lot. THe Police Officer asked him a lot of questions, and Danny, was not aware that everything said in a patrol car was recorded.

This was the day I heard my son, at 16 years of age, tell this police officer about all the different drugs he takes and how he makes hundreds of dollars throug h this man, who pimps him off to older men who want to have sex with young boys. I totally collapsed.

I went back into the courthouse and when the probation officer recommended incarceration at the Less Secure Facility, I had nothing to say. He was brought to the Less Secure Facility. The Officer asked me if my husband and myself I would meet him that evening at the high school to discuss the tape. Afer what I had told my husband, he chose not to listen to any of it. The Officer assured us the tape would be kept in a safe. This Police Officer then asked for Danny?s cell phone so he can get the phone numbers that were on it. We gladly gave it to him. After discussing the situation with the officer regarding pressing charges against these men, the Officer suggested our priority should be to take care of our son. My husband and I agreed.

1 week later, Danny took off from the Less Secure Facility and went to one of the residential homes in the area, at 10 pm at night. He explained he had gotten lost while playing tag wit h his friends and asked to use their phone to call a cab. They allowed my son in their home. This also astounded me.

Danny took that cab to Maryland, to "the man's" house. He did not have any money so when the cab got near the neighborhood, Danny dove out of the speeding car. He then went on to the house. For two days my husband and I were sick with worry wondering where he could have gone. Finally my husband contacted Nate and told him we need to know where this man?s house is. Nate went with my husband to Maryland and brought him to the house. The man told my husband he had not seen Danny. When my husband returned to the car and told Nate that Danny wasn?t there, Nate told my husband to ask the guy if he could look around in his house. My husband returned to the home, asked and the man voluntarilly let my husband check around the house. In the last closet of the house, my husband looked, and there stood my 16 year old son, hiding in this man?s closest wi th horrific cuts and scrapes on his face, arms and legs, from jumping out of a speeding vehicle.

When Danny returned home he was put in the Juvenile Detention Center.

After court, he was released.

A policmen called me at 10pm on a Saturday night to tell me that my son was jumped in a bad area in Washington DC. When I reached the hospital, Danny was lying motionless on a stretcher with his face beat in.

We brought Danny to NYC to live with relatives to try and start a new life. Danny had a hard time finding employment. He was still drinking. We got word from his cousins that Danny was traveling by Greyhound bus to Maryland to get drugs from this man and then go back to NY to sell them. My husband and his three brothers tracked my son down in NY and brought him to the Silver Spring Hospital in Connecticut. This was a locked down detoxification facility. Once released, my husband took him

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From: MaryW

Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:49:10 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I have a 19 year son who is determined to kill himself with alcohol. There is a long history of alcoholism between both mine and my husband's family.

When Danny returned home he was put in the Juvenile Detention Center.

After court, he was released.

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From: NikkiBowersox

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 21:34:37 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Well, my story isn't a great one, but here it goes. First I am going to start off by saying that this is a very difficult thing for me to discuss. But I know that in doing so, it not only helps me, but it may just help others as well.

When I was 15 years old, I became addicted to pills. It didn't matter what kind they were, or who I recieved them from, I wanted them. I started smoking pot at the age of 15. That is what started it all for me. My downward spiral of fix after fix, and it still seemed like I was never satisfied.

I started smoking pot because I wanted to feel good. At the time I had been going through alot of emotional things, childish things, but at the time, I thought they were major to me. My main thing for smoking was that I wanted to get my head cleared for my schoolwork. And for a while my grades were wonderful. Then I started smoking before, during, and after school. I became consumed by it. And then after all the pot I smoked you would think that would have been enough for me, but it wasn't. I dated a guy before my 16th birthday who was a "pill popper", but I didn't know untill it was too late. His constant verbal abuse and threats to me scared me enough to want to do something to ignore him or just feel numb. I was young and didn't know that I had the power to leave him if I wanted to. That's what led up to the day that he forced me to take pills for the first time. That was also the day that he hit me for the first, and last time. I was petrified. I couldn't tell my parents , because I knew that they would do something bad to him, and I thought, at the time, that I could handle it. Every time we were together after that, he fed me pills. Half the time I never knew what I was taking, all I knew was that I didn't want to make him mad at me, so I took them. That is where the addiction to pills started for me. After that I used the excuse of "I want to do good in school, and this stuff seems to be helping me". And I continued to use, without my parents knowing. All they knew was that my moods were better, and that I had broken things off with my boyfriend.

Now I wish that I could say that I had gotten better by that time, and stopped smoking pot and taking pills, but I didn't. I only got worse. I started dating a guy a little over a year later, that not only would I get pot from, but that I would get pills from, for FREE. That was always the magic word for me, FREE. I did love him, however. We had a connection before we dated, and it had absolutely nothing to do with drugs. It was his music and his love for me that kept me going alot of the time, and his constant, neverending friendship to me. Then he became my enabler. It got worse from there.

At the begining of my Junior year of high school, I was in so deep that I became an insomniac when I didn't have anything to take. I had mentioned to my mom a few times that I needed help and treatment for my constant mood swings and horrable behavior, but she failed to listen. Then, and I still feel horrid for this, I stole a ring off of a neighbor girl. I'll never forget the day that I was caught. October 4th, 2000. My mother cofronted me about the ring, and I freaked out. I locked myself in the bathroom, and the only thing that ran through my mind was " maybe I could finally get her to listen to me, this is my chance to get help" because I knew that I needed the help, and that I couldn't do it alone. I then looked over at the bathtub, and looked at the disposable lady bic razor sitting there, all dull and cruddy, and closed my eyes and ran it across my wrist four or five times, just enough to break the skin, so I would bleed out and my mother could really see that I needed help. I didn't want to die, and I knew that I only cut the surface of my skin, I just wanted help. I was then rushed to Woodridge (a mental facility that was the only place that had a rehabilitation center in Eastern Tennessee) and bandaged up. I was so doped up on Loratab and pot that all I could do was sob uncontrollably and admit my problems. I will never forget what my mom went through that day.

I stayed there and went by the rules and got cleaned up. I stayed for almost a week and a half. The center said I was well enough to go to a rehabilitational school instead of going back to regular high school. Which was fine with me, because that is where I had free access to the drugs to begin with. I stayed there untill the day of my 17th birthday, so I was there for about 3 months.

I felt good about myself. More than good, I felt alive again. I was learning how to control myself and started taking medication for being Bi-Polar. I went back to school and got on with my life. Everyone that did drugs, including my boyfriend at the time, missed me and welcomed me back with open arms, and supported my decsision of sobriety.

Since then, I have moved out of state. I turned 21, and I now live in Pennsylvania. I am working on getting my high school deploma through corrispondance courses through the mail and internet. And the greatest achievements in my life, being a wife, and then a year and a half later, becoming a mother to a beautiful baby boy. I also weened myself off of the medication that was prescribed to me for my disorder, and have since then trained myself to calm down and think things through and to control my moods. I have been sober for five years as of october 5th of this year.

This is my life now. RECOVERY. I love myself now more than I ever have before and I have a wonderful loving, patient husband that helps me with anything, and a son that is my little angel. I hope that this story, my story, can help someone somehow. If anyone would like to discuss anything with me about this, I will be more than willing to chat. Thank you for taking time to read this.

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From: pushycat

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:10:29 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

just so we all know, treatment facilities have a margin or about 30% recovery rate, 70% relapse again...

in heroin addicts is a much higher relapse rate...the reason is due the the fact that we send our children to rehab but dont teach them to live with out the drug, the routine of drug use is more addicting than the drug,,,the routine of get money get drugs do drugs get more money get more drugs(getting drugs means walking to the meeting place, waiting for the man, if he shows, could take two hours) its a vicious circle and we spend so much time doing this that we end up having no time for anything else, including family, friends, books, nothing...so we need to find a way to teach people how to live a life without the routine, or we will be right back to square one. that is why the relapse rate is so high, sending a prisoner out into the world with $40 bucks and a bus ticket doesnt teach him to live with freedom

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From: Jo

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:07:23 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I was unable to watch the show about your lovely daughter as I was dealing with my daughter leaving that very same day.

Our problems began in January when one of her friends called us to let us know she had skipped school - she was 17 at the time - and was over at her house snorting something, drinking straight vodka, and she thought she may have overdosed. My husband and I rush over, take her to the emergency room, and all they would do is tell us she needs to go to a short-term facility until we can get her into a long-term facility.

We took her to the facility the hospital suggested, and she was there 10 days and let us know she was good to go. There was no need for a long-term facility.

She went back to school, and then about one month later one of her friends comes to our house to let us know she is smoking crystal meth. She finds out about this and runs away. A week later she assaulted five police officers and is, again, taken to the short-term rehab facility.

The only solutions the psychiatrist on staff there has was for us to pray because she was not wanting help and did not think she had a problem. I found a long-term facility, and she was transported there by a service (we were afraid she might jump out of the car or attack us if we took her) and admitted for treatment.

The first weeks there were tough, but we saw a "glimmer" of hope through several family counseling sessions. Her psychiatrist at the long-term facility told us she was ready to come home after 3 months there. In fact, he said there is NO way she is going to relapse. I asked about half-way houses, boarding schools for addicts, because I knew when that fateful day of July 24th came around, she would be 18.

Money was not an issue. Our insurance did not pay for inpatient drug rehab, but the decision was made to use her college fund because, after all, if she wasn't alive college wasn't an issue, right ? She was released on June 29th.

We were fortunate enough t o have a second home that I took her to immediately after she was released. I thought if I kept her away from her old environment for a period it would help. Of course, we had the contract between us where she would do this, that and the other.

I brought her home after the two weeks, and she seemed to be doing fine. We were getting registered for her senior year, getting her driver's license, etc. Her curfew was 12:00, and she was home exactly on time or even a little early. Life was good, right?

Last Friday I went up to her room and caught her shooting up. She started crying, said she just wanted to kill herself. I tried to take her to the ER, but she refused, saying she was 18 and I couldn't do anything.

Someone came to the house, and the next thing I know they are carrying two big trash bags out of the house. I locked the door on her. She said, Fine, I don't have my cell phone. You'll never hear from me again. I cracked the door op en and threw her cell phone out.

I am beside myself. I then get a call from my daughter telling me she has called the police so she can get the rest of "her stuff." I dialed 9-1-1 and let them know what was going on. I had the police come over to give her medication she is on - she's bipolar - and they were actually very sympathetic. By the way, we live in an affluent suburb of Dallas, Texas called Plano - it's been in the news because of the huge drug problems here.

My husband and I finally decided there is nothing else we can do unless she decides to get help for herself. My daughter is very social and has, apparently, two sets of friends - the users and non-users. The non-users have given me all kinds of suggestions - out-of-state rehab, trying to get her arrested - but at this point I think it's up to her.

Your story with Carrick helped me so much, and so did Carrick's statement at the end - there was nothing my parents could have done. It was something I had to do for myself. The guilt I feel is e normous, but I can't help her any more.

I worry daily about getting the dreaded phone call from the hospital that she has overdosed, in a coma. I just pray the call is from the police because at least then I know she is safe, to some extent.

Is there any way to stop this madness? And there has to be another solution other than rehab because I'm not seeing that it works. Can you believe one place in Arizona wants almost $40,000 a month. I run a very successful business and my husband is an attorney, and we cannot for the life of us figure out a way to help our own daughter.

I am attaching a picture of the syringe I caught her with. Apparently, per the drug lab, it was a mixture of crystal meth and ecstasy.

I guess the only solution is tough love. But man, does it hurt.............

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From: "Carrick Forbes"

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:28:20 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I am blessed and grateful to have the mind and health I have, I resent it when people imply that children of addicts would be better off having never been born. Each and every single one of us has faults. Wouldn't it seem ridiculous if someone suggested that an over eater should not have children in case of passing a "fat gene" I am endlessly grateful for my parents, I feel like I won the family lottery. Their trials have made them stronger, compassionate and, I think, better people and parents, for it. :pbpt:

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From: "Mary Kennedy"

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 04:39:18 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jo,

Of all the stories I've read on these pages, yours touched me the most. The "drama" is unbearable. This is a process - both for the child and for the family. It, unfortunately, cannot be rushed. I remember being told at Family Education weekend, when our son was in rehab for 90 days, that we were not to think that he would be at Step 12 in the program when he was released - but maybe he'd be at Step 1. You watch them get back to "normal" in the rehab environment, gain a little weight, start acting like themselves, and then - boom - a matter of weeks after their release, they're back at it again. We were able to find an AlAnon group that consisted of many parents of young adult addicts/alcoholics. We were all in the same boat, and the stories were horrendous. I went to that group for 6 mos., took out of it what I could, and that began my "process." This thing takes TIME. I know that you've been in hell for 7 mos., and it feels like 7 years, and you're feeling like this is the way it will be, and there is no hope. We've been in it for 4 years this time, and when my friends tell me not to give up hope, I tell them Hope Hurts Too Much. Hope comes each time you see that "glimmer." Hope is yanked away each time they relapse. I finally stopped "hoping," and just lived what AA says - one day at a time, taking whatever came, as it happened. I didn't have that perspective in the first year. It's very difficult to begin to understand that each time they are clean is only a step in the right direction. We want SO badly for the madness to stop. Everyone around you - friends, acquaintances, family members - have an idea about what you should do/shouldn't do. They mean well, but they don't understand hell on earth, and that's what you're going through. I will give you this hop e - you will learn your heart in this, and you will listen to it. If there were easy answers to your daughter's problems, someone would write a book and make a gazillion dollars. No one knows the answers. The psychiatrist who assured you she would never relapse again just simply didn't know what he was talking about. It was a sentence coming from his mouth. It was what you hung your hope on - big difference. That won't be the last wrong piece of "information" you get, but as you grow through this, you will know in your heart what sounds right and reject those things that just plain don't sound applicable to your situation. I can only share our story and our experiences. Our boundary for our adult son was he could live in our home as long as he wasn't using. When he would have to leave, we just reiterated that he could always come home when he was clean (sometimes we said it like that - sometimes we screamed it). I believe in my heart that they must feel a connection to us and be able to have that connection open. He has come home and left many times. I'm a nurturer, and as I say to my friends who tell me I'm crazy for caring about someone who has done such horrible things to us, that's who I am. I feed him, try to give him little bites of responsibility, listen at length, and throw him out again, if the drugs start. I will tell you this - he's been on the drug Suboxone for 4 mos. and a miracle has occurred within our family Regarding in-patient rehab: the best advice we ever got (and we got it from the rehab facility, the psychiatrist he sees, and the Mayo Clinic) was that he did NOT need anymore in-patient rehab. He learned what he had to during his 90 days, but he needed to start LIVING it. It's probably why 2 weeks away at your second home didn't work, although your instinct was excellent to try it. Two weeks is a drop in the hat with this process. Drugs bring out the worst qualities ALL human beings possess. If you can see your daughter as someone who is so dependent (upon you, upon her drug buddies, upon the drugs), it might open up your heart and mind. They don't "grow up" in 90 days or 7 months. We, as parents, just pray they will live to grow up. I know so well your feelings of just wanting to know that she's safe. It's amazing, isn't it? All of our hopes and dreams for our children, and it all boils down to - I want them to be alive. I felt that even if our son went to jail, at least I'd know he was being offered food and was alive. No matter what our financial means, emotionally we're all the same. Love is love is love, and pain is pain is pain. I so empathize with your love and your pain. Do something nice for yourself.

Mary

Jo wrote:

> I was unable to watch the show about your lovely daughter as I was dealing with my daughter leaving that very same day.

> Our problems began in January when one of her friends called us to let us know she had skipped school - she was 17 at the time - and was over at her house snorting something, drinking straight vodka, and she thought she may have overdosed. My husband and I rush over, take her to the emergency room, and all they would do is tell us she needs to go to a short-term facility until we can get her into a long-term facility.

> We took her to the facility the hospital suggested, and she was there 10 days and let us know she was good to go. There was no need for a long-term facility.

> She went back to school, and then about one month later one of her friends comes to our house to let us know she is smoking crystal meth. She finds out about this and runs away. A week later she assaulted five police officers and is, again, taken to the short-term rehab facility.

> The only solutions the psychiatrist on staff there has was for us to pray because she was not wanting help and did not think she had a problem. I found a long-term facility, and she was transported there by a service (we were afraid she might jump out of the car or attack us if we took her) and admitted for treatment.

> The first weeks there were tough, but we saw a "glimmer" of hope through several family counseling sessions. Her psychiatrist at the long-term facility told us she was ready to come home after 3 months there. In fact, he said there is NO way she is going to relapse. I asked about half-way houses, boarding schools for addicts, because I knew when that fateful day of July 24th came around, she would be 18.

> Money was not an issue. Our insurance did not pay for inpatient drug rehab, but the decision was made to use her college fund beca use, after all, if she wasn't alive college wasn't an issue, right? She was released on June 29th.

> We were fortunate enough to have a second home that I took her to immediately after she was released. I thought if I kept her away from her old environment for a period it would help. Of course, we had the contract between us where she would do this, that and the other.

> I brought her home after the two weeks, and she seemed to be doing fine. We were getting registered for her senior year, getting her driver's license, etc. Her curfew was 12:00, and she was home exactly on time or even a little early. Life was good, right?

> Last Friday I went up to her room and caught her shooting up. She started crying, said she just wanted to kill herself. I tried to take her to the ER, but she refused, saying she was 18 and I couldn't do anything.

> Someone came to the house, and the next thing I know they are carrying two big trash bags out of the house. I locked the doo r on her. She said, Fine, I don't have my cell phone. You'll never hear from me again. I cracked the door open and threw her cell phone out.

> I am beside myself. I then get a call from my daughter telling me she has called the police so she can get the rest of "her stuff." I dialed 9-1-1 and let them know what was going on. I had the police come over to give her medication she is on - she's bipolar - and they were actually very sympathetic. By the way, we live in an affluent suburb of Dallas, Texas called Plano - it's been in the news because of the huge drug problems here.

> My husband and I finally decided there is nothing else we can do unless she decides to get help for herself. My daughter is very social and has, apparently, two sets of friends - the users and non-users. The non-users have given me all kinds of suggestions - out-of-state rehab, trying to get her arrested - but at this point I think it's up to her.

> Your story with Carrick helped me so much, and so did Carrick's statement at the end - there was nothing my parents could have done. It was something I had to do for myself. The guilt I feel is enormous, but I can't help her any more.

> I worry daily about getting the dreaded phone call from the hospital that she has overdosed, in a coma. I just pray the call is from the police because at least then I know she is safe, to some extent.

> Is there any way to stop this madness? And there has to be another solution other than rehab because I'm not seeing that it works. Can you believe one place in Arizona wants almost $40,000 a month. I run a very successful business and my husband is an attorney, and we cannot for the life of us figure out a way to help our own daughter.

> I am attaching a picture of the syringe I caught her with. Apparently, per the drug lab, it was a mixture of crystal meth and ecstasy.

> I guess the only solution is tough love. But man, does it hurt.............

> --------------------------------------------------

From: Jo

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:58:37 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mary,

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, wisdom, advice and story.

There are several things in your post that everyone needs to listen to - there is no immediate fix, take it one day at a time, and long-term rehab is not the solution. I am amazed a professional finally admitted that to you.

I guess to make myself feel better I have called her non-user friends and given them information for out-patient treatment facilities if she calls them for help. Hey, it's the only positive thing I can think of to do in what, otherwise, is a "living hell" situation, as you put it.

No one has any answers, and here's the conclusion I've come to: Every person's brain is different, so how can there be a cure that works for everyone? Maybe it's NA, short-term rehab, long-term rehab, jail. Maybe they will never recover and are enjoying their time being high while it lasts.

All addicts know it can't last - they either quit using or die. I t's kind of hard to get my hands around that one. If someone walked up to me right now and said, If you drink your coffee this morning, you will die. Well, I "really" want my Starbuck's, but I would have to just say no. Then again, what would one more hurt. After all, it's only coffee.

In trying to put myself in my daughter's shoes, that's what I do. I know crystal meth is deadlier than coffee, but not in her mind.

So is there a solution? Not one we want to hear. As a parent, you are going to suffer, drama will become a constant in your life, and your son or daughter may or may not recover. That's it in a nutshell.

We have to go on and do the best we can with the cards life has dealt us. My brother, who is an engineer, made a comment to me. He said his mind works like an engineer's mind - there is a problem; therefore, there is a solution. Although in engineering there is always the "indefinete solution," which basically means the solution is there is no solution.

I think that's where we are at right now. Sometimes the solution is to not find one and do the best you can, day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second......

----------

From: "Mary Kennedy"

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:11:38 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jo,

You are so very welcome. I feel like you are in your darkest hours and days, and I guess I just wanted to speak from my heart, anything that would help you get through the next moment. I love that you did something - called her non-using friends and gave them information. It's what we do, isn't it? We just have to feel like we're working on that "indefinite solution." Of course it made you feel better - if even for a moment, and who knows - it might even make your daughter feel better When I first came on this webpage, I was struck by the people who said they'd written their child's eulogy. Here I thought I was the only one. When we can accept, intellectually, that we just might lose this child, I feel it's a step in the right direction. There is no way we could ever accept it emotionally, but it's a little bit of reality seeping into our hearts. That "reality" took me 3 1/2 years Our son was using cocaine, so there was always the threat of something happening to his heart, but it didn't seem as immediately threatening as crystal meth or something administered with a needle (ah, the mind's a beautiful thing when it's in denial).

You and your family are in our thoughts, Jo. It doesn't help a whole lot to know that others have been there, done that, but you are not alone in this struggle. You are doing the very best you can with it.

Mary

> Mary,

> Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, wisdom, advice and story.

> There are several things in your post that everyone needs to listen to - there is no immediate fix, take it one day at a time, and long-term rehab is not the solution. I am amazed a professional finally admitted that to you.

> I guess to make myself feel better I have called her non-user friends and given them information for out-patient treatment facilities if she calls them for help. Hey, it's the only positive thing I can think of to do in what, otherwise, is a "living hell" situation, as you put it.

> No one has any answers, and here's the conclusion I've come to: Every person's brain is different, so how can there be a cure that works for everyone? Maybe it's NA, short-term rehab, long-term rehab, jail. Maybe they will never recover and are enjoying their time being high while it lasts.

> All addicts know it can't last - they either quit using or die. It's kind of hard to get my hands around that one. If someone walked up to me right now and said, If you drink your coffee this morning, you will die. Well, I "really" want my Starbuck's, but I would have to just say no. Then again, what would one more hurt. After all, it's only coffee.

> In trying to put myself in my daughter's shoes, that's what I do. I know crystal meth is deadlier than coffee, but not in her mind.

> So is there a solution? Not one we want to hear. As a parent, you are going to suffer, drama will become a constant in your life, and your son or daughter may or may not recover. That's it in a nutshell.

> We have to go on and do the best we can with the cards life has dealt us. My brother, who is an engineer, made a comment to me. He said his mind works like an engineer's mind - there is a problem; therefore, there is a solution. Although in engineering there is alw ays the "indefinete solution," which basically means the solution is there is no solution.

> I think that's where we are at right now. Sometimes the solution is to not find one and do the best you can, day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second......

> --------------------------------------------------

> From: Linnea

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:21:50 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

THe weariness and perplexity is consuming when your child is a heroin addict. And if you have lived your life in an arena where 1+1 is always reliable for equaling 2 or the "if this, then that" equation is a standard way of successfully addressing and resolving problems, the irrational dynamics of addiction are even more difficult to get your mind around. In an effort to try to simultaneously help my daughter and take care of myself, I often equated it to trying to play offense and defense at the same time. No coach in the world would expect the quarterback to run out and catch the pass s/he just threw, for crying out loud. Both the hardest and most freeing moment for me was when I accepted the limits of my capacities as a parent/human and accepted the fact that my daughter might die and there was not a damn thing in the world I could do about it. And believe me, I'd spent many exhaustive years trying to plug every hole in the dike. That's not to say I abandoned my daughte r. I always made it clear I was there for her when she decided to change direction. There was no great bitterness that came with my realization and it didn't evolve into indifference or the need to disown my child. But her presence in my world had to exist on my terms. For whatever reason, I simply decided that I wanted to be available and strong for when she decided to live. Or strong enough to bear with the pain if she decided to die. Tough Love is certainly a valid position to take, but it's still an investment in trying to get the addict to "see". Letting go is more about investing in yourself and the nature of the world you choose to live in and the future you choose for yourself. Yes, it is sad and painful and empty if your child does not join you there, but there's nothing you can do about that. I designated specific times for crying and bitching and kicking a thing or two which worked well for me. To totally disregard the compelling need to let it rip was unhealthy and denied most of how I was feeling. But to let it consume my existe nce was unhealthy, as well.That;s not to say I wouldn't sometimes fall apart in the freezer aisle at the grocery store because it would sneak up on me without warning now and again. But mostly I tried to give it the attention it deserved, on my terms. My daughter has been on methadone for four years and doing well, but I still cringe a bit when I hear a certain tone of voice or she doesn't call when she says she will. The engraved fears will probably always be there, I suppose. At times like those I cheerlead myself about the importance of doing what I am doing for myself and try like hell to not react. It will never be a total cake-walk emotionally and sometimes I do better than others. But I am intent on the objective that if my daugher chooses to compromise her recovery, she will not take me with her down that road of emotional chaos. It was far too ugly for the time that it was and I was a willing participant. When she was using, I tried everything I could to inter cept, sabotage, redirect, fix, repair, coerce, shame, guilt and otherwise discourage her intent to destroy herself. But I couldn't save her from herself and that was the bottom line. But I could save me.

----------

From: Scott

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:50:31 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

The real victims are the one's suffering such as yourself,The fact is addicts just don't care as they just numb out and self centerness prevails above all else.

Above all you need to find help for "yourself" so that can live "your" life to the fullest and not fall into your daughters insanity, there is plenty of help out there for you from others that are and have been where you are right now, the only thing that you can really do for your daughter is pray and be there when the time is right for "her". I had plenty of people praying for me for a whole lot of years.

And now I pray for my sister, because she is exactly where your daughter is.

----------

From: MaryW

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:32:28 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I have a 19 year son who is determined to kill himself with alcohol. There is a long history of alcoholism between both mine and my husband's family.

After release from his inp atient stay, he was encouraged to attend 30 AA meetings in 30 days. M y husband and I took turns driving him back and forth to the teen meetings within our area. At some point a 29 year old man approached my son, during a meeting. . My son is very good looking boy, to the point of almost pretty. This 29 year old man who attended young teen meetings was nothing but a predator. He would scan the room looking for boys who he thought really didnt want to be there, but their parents made them. He befriended my son. Both my husband and I have lived with recovered alcoholic parents and thought it nothing unusual for his sponsor to constantly call and pick him up. At this time we thought it would be wrong to insist on going out to the car to meet with him. Having full knowledge of the importance of anomynity within the AA group. My son at this time was 16 years old. This person, Nate, lived in a ?sober house? which is a residential house where the residents are recovering alcoholics and must continue to be sober to receive financial assistan ce for rent and utilities.

One day after Danny was up all night on meth ampethamine he decided to go to school. As soon as Danny got there, the Officer handcuffed him, called me, and asked me to meet him at the Juvenile Court Facility. In my mind Danny was still my child and no one could take ca re of him like I could. Once reaching the Juvenile Court facility, the probation officer pulled me into an office and explained that she would like to have Danny detained in the Less Secure Facility until his next court date. In my mind Danny was still my child and no one could take care of him like I could. I told the probation officer that I thought this was an extreme measure to be taken against a child who has been arrested for truancy. At this time, the Officer asked me to take a walk to his patrol car. As I explained earlier, Danny liked and trusted this Officer. On the drive down to the courthouse that morning, Danny was very high on crystal meth and was talking a whole lot. THe Police Officer asked him a lot of questions, and Danny, was not aware that everything said in a patrol car was recorded.

This was the day I heard my son, at 16 years of age, tell this police officer about all the different drugs he takes and how he makes hundreds of dollars through this man, who pimps him off to older men who want to have sex with young boys. I totally collapsed.

----------

From: "Mary Kennedy"

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:46:16 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Excruciatingly well said, Linnea.

Linnea wrote:

> THe weariness and perplexity is consuming when your child is a heroin addict. And if you have lived your life in an arena where 1+1 is always reliable for equaling 2 or the "if this, then that" equation is a standard way of successfully addressing and resolving problems, the irrational dynamics of addiction are even more difficult to get your mind around. In an effort to try to simultaneously help my daughter and take care of myself, I often equated it to trying to play offense and defense at the same time. No coach in the world would expect the quarterback to run out and catch the pass s/he just threw, for crying out loud. Both the hardest and most freeing moment for me was when I accepted the limits of my capacities as a parent/human and accepted the fact that my daughter might die and there was not a damn thing in the world I could do about it. And believe me, I'd spent ma ny exhaustive years trying to plug every hole in the dike. That's not to say I abandoned my daughter. I always made it clear I was there for her when she decided to change direction. There was no great bitterness that came with my realization and it didn't evolve into indifference or the need to disown my child. But her presence in my world had to exist on my terms. For whatever reason, I simply decided that I wanted to be available and strong for when she decided to live. Or strong enough to bear with the pain if she decided to die. Tough Love is certainly a valid position to take, but it's still an investment in trying to get the addict to "see". Letting go is more about investing in yourself and the nature of the world you choose to live in and the future you choose for yourself. Yes, it is sad and painful and empty if your child does not join you there, but there's nothing you can do about that. I designated specific times for crying and bitching and kicking a thing or two which worked well for me. To totally disregard the compelling need to let it rip was unhealthy and denied most of how I was feeling. But to let it consume my existence was unhealthy, as well.That;s not to say I wouldn't sometimes fall apart in the freezer aisle at the grocery store because it would sneak up on me without warning now and again. But mostly I tried to give it the attention it deserved, on my terms. My daughter has been on methadone for four years and doing well, but I still cringe a bit when I hear a certain tone of voice or she doesn't call when she says she will. The engraved fears will probably always be there, I suppose. At times like those I cheerlead myself about the importance of doing what I am doing for myself and try like hell to not react. It will never be a total cake-walk emotionally and sometimes I do better than others. But I am intent on the objective that if my daugher chooses to compromise her recovery, she will not take me with her down that road of emotional chaos. It was far too ugly for the time that it was and I was a willing participant. When she was using, I tried everything I could to intercept, sabotage, redirect, fix, repair, coerce, shame, guilt and otherwise discourage her intent to destroy herself. But I couldn't save her from herself and that was the bottom line. But I could save me.

> --------------------------------------------------

From: "mary zeszut"

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:23:02 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

linnea, i will also add....WELL SAID...iam trying so hard to get there..Amy's MOM

----------

From: "Mary Kennedy"

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 03:47:21 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mary,

Don't give up on yourself. You will do this. Every time you think you won't - you will. Each time you say you can't - you will. Those times build on each other and you just get stronger. Only in hindsight can you see that process. You will achieve clarity, but it will take time. When we are in pain or see our loved ones in pain, we want the time to be short. We want to speed the process to fix it and get everyone out of their pain. Give yourself respite, Mary, any way you can get it, and don't stop talking.

Mary

mary zeszut wrote:

> linnea, i will also add....WELL SAID...iam trying so hard to get there..Amy's MOM

> --------------------------------------------------

From: Jo

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:45:56 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Today is a new day. It's unusual, Mary, but you're right. Everyone needs to take baby steps and take care of yourself and the rest of your family. My daughter is an only child, but I still have the most understanding and caring husband in the world, a business I love (I'm an artist), and three beautiful cats (at least I know they won't OD on Fancy Feast :)

And since I've never been known to be a quitter, I will keep chipping away at that "indefinite solution" and hope for the best for my daughter.

My father died this year in the middle of all of this. He was a caring, funny and loving man. My daughter and my father were very, very close. I remember sitting next to him in the hospital bed after my daughter came to visit him. He looked at me and said, Sis, she sure is pretty, funny and full of life. Do you think you can control her? I looked at him and said, You know, Dad, I'm not sure.

I think that's where I'm at now. I can't control h er, but I can control my reaction to her actions. In the meantime, Life's a dance; you learn as you go. Sometimes you lead; sometimes you follow. Don't worry about what you don't know; life's a dance, you learn as you go.........

Here's something I'm working on called "Heaven," and a prom picture of my daughter last year. I pray to that beautiful sunset we both saw that even though she's not with me now, we're still under the same sky and that someone up there will watch over us.....

-------------

From: Roberta

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:07:07 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Dear Jo, MaryW, and others:

My heart goes out to you from reading your stories. I too know what it's like to have an addicted child. My daughter is 20, and has be an IV heroin addict for 2 years. I have been through the traumas, rehabs, lies, and tries as well.

After a while, I thought I was starting to have symptoms of "post-traumatic stress syndrome". Out of nowhere, I would flash back to the times in the middle of the night when I would drive to slum areas and dope houses to get her, because she said she was in danger of rape or beatings from the men there. These are some areas that the police are hesitant to go into even in daylight. I would also flash back to the times I had to wrestle her to get the carkeys away, because she was so stoned she would have either killed herself or someone else if she drove. I also would re-live the panic of finding needles and caps on her, when I asked her to turn her pockets inside out. The ultimate was catching her in the act of shooting up, with a belt around her arm, spoons and matches littered around, and the aggression in her when interrupted from her fix.

I finally ended up getting her out of my house. She is living with her boyfriend now. It has been a great relief not to live day-to-day with the extreme stress and pressure. After I had some space from her, and time to think.. I decided I needed to deal with these stressful and unresolved horrors I had gone through. I sought help from a counselor and doctor to deal with the anxiety and fear.

I also started searching the net for information on co-dependency. By chance, I found a helpful site with online discussions about how to get over the trauma, and move on towards healing the damage done.

www.addictionrecoveryguide.org

Once on this site, go to "Message Board". There are forums grouped by drug of choice, with postings from addicts and families discussing a variety of topics and issues.

I found the forum "Families/Partners of Addicts" to be most helpful. A posting titled "Co-dependency Steps" was very good. Also, posters are working through the steps together online and it is helping me to see where I am at this point and where I need to go..in order to heal myself.

My best wishes and prayers to all others going through the struggles of having an addicted child. I guess I just got sick of re-hashing the horror stories in my head. I got sick of trading war stories with others in support groups. I decided I needed to work on myself...irregardless of what my daughter is doing to herself right now. She knows I care about her, and will help her if she really wants to change. In the meantime, I value myself enough to want to heal the damage, learn new ways of coping with this situation, and not fall into the trap of being obsessed about her heroin addiction. I feel a strong need to get my sanity back

Anyway, just thought I'd share a website that I found intersting and helpful.

----------

From: Lexy

Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 15:47:50 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

"Well, my story isn't a great one, but here it goes. First I am going to start off by saying that this is a very difficult thing for me to discuss. But I know that in doing so, it not only helps me, but it may just help others as well.

When I was 15 years old, I became addicted to pills. It"

Nikki I am so proud to know you....what a remarkable story and wonderful happy ending...

God bless you and your little family

Hugz

Lexy :smile:

----------

From: Hope619

Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:29:55 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Roberta,

Thank you so much for your post. Ditto on everything your daughter does (+ additional horrors ie. of prostitution, incarceration etc.), my daughter also did these things. Thank God she has been in recovery for a couple of years now, but I couldn't get my joy back. I still live like tomorrow the world will turn upside down again. I have started seeing a therapist as well and she likewise said I experience PTSD and anxiety. It made so much sense the minute the therapist mentioned it. So I will definitely check out the web site you recommended. Thank you again.

Roberta wrote:

> Dear Jo, MaryW, and others:

> My heart goes out to you from reading your stories. I too know what it's like to have an addicted child. My daughter is 20, and has be an IV heroin addict for 2 years. I have been through the traumas, rehabs, lies, and tries as well.

> After a while, I thought I was starting to have symptoms of "post-traumatic stress syndrome". Out of nowhere, I would flash back to the times in the middle of the night when I would drive to slum areas and dope houses to get her, because she said she was in danger of rape or beatings from the men there. These are some areas that the police are hesitant to go into even in daylight. I would also flash back to the times I had to wrestle her to get the carkeys away, because she was so stoned she would have either killed herself or someone else if she drove . I also would re-live the panic of finding needles and caps on her, when I asked her to turn her pockets inside out. The ultimate was catching her in the act of shooting up, with a belt around her arm, spoons and matches littered around, and the aggression in her when interrupted from her fix.

> I finally ended up getting her out of my house. She is living with her boyfriend now. It has been a great relief not to live day-to-day with the extreme stress and pressure. After I had some space from her, and time to think.. I decided I needed to deal with these stressful and unresolved horrors I had gone through. I sought help from a counselor and doctor to deal with the anxiety and fear.

> I also started searching the net for information on co-dependency. By chance, I found a helpful site with online discussions about how to get over the trauma, and move on towards healing the damage done.

> www.addictionrecoveryguide .org

> Once on this site, go to "Message Board". There are forums grouped by drug of choice, with postings from addicts and families discussing a variety of topics and issues.

> I found the forum "Families/Partners of Addicts" to be most helpful. A posting titled "Co-dependency Steps" was very good. Also, posters are working through the steps together online and it is helping me to see where I am at this point and where I need to go..in order to heal myself.

> My best wishes and prayers to all others going through the struggles of having an addicted child. I guess I just got sick of re-hashing the horror stories in my head. I got sick of trading war stories with others in support groups. I decided I needed to work on myself...irregardless of what my daughter is doing to herself right now. She knows I care about her, and will help her if she really wants to change. In the meantime, I value myself enough to want to he al the damage, learn new ways of coping with this situation, and not fall into the trap of being obsessed about her heroin addiction. I feel a strong need to get my sanity back

> Anyway, just thought I'd share a website that I found intersting and helpful.

----------

> From: "Sharon O'Shea"

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:00:22 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Okay, everybody. Let's have some action here. I know there are a million stories to be told. You never know who you might save with what you say.

Tell me a story.

----------

From: ChelseaRI

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:25:11 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I haven't posted here in a week or so and just wanted to say a few things. First off..thanks everyone for keeping this site alive. My life has its ups and downs, lately its been littered with a bit more chaos and depression then usual. When in the midst of not so great moments I tend to stay away from the very things that could help me out of the darkness. i isolate, shut off my phone, and sleep like i haven't caught a wink in months. i escape. Then I got an email from a regular poster here.. asking how i was, where was I?... That feeling of being missed, or having my absence noticed made me realize that maybe, just maybe i am likeable:) I came here, and I read your stories. I remembered that there are always problems greater then mine. Every sorrow is great to the bearer.

here i go rambling. I just wanted to remind people that one small act of kindness can go a long long way. when you don't feel like coming here and writing..good or bad.. remember that there could be someone who needs to read exactly what you have to say. It could change their day.. or their life...

Chelsea

----------

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:01:47 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I was wondering how you were doing myself, Chelsea. I, too, missed your voice.

I hope you'll keep writing. Just think of it as a first draft of something you can polish later, when you're feeling better. And when you're feeling better, you may be surprised about how well you nailed it when you weren't feeling so well and felt that everything lacked luster.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

On Aug 22, 2005, at 3:25 PM, ChelseaRI wrote:

> I haven't posted here in a week or so and just wanted to say a few things. First off..thanks everyone for keeping this site alive. My life has its ups and downs, lately its been littered with a bit more chaos and depression then us ual. When in the midst of not so great moments I tend to stay away fro m the very things that could help me out of the darkness. i isolate, shut off my phone, and sleep like i haven't caught a wink in months. i escape. Then I got an email from a regular poster here.. asking how i was, where was I?... That feeling of being missed, or having my absence noticed made me realize that maybe, just maybe i am likeable:) I came here, and I read your stories. I remembered that there are always problems greater then mine. Every sorrow is great to the bearer.

> here i go rambling. I just wanted to remind people that one small act of kindness can go a long long way. when you don't feel like coming here and writing..good or bad.. remember that there could be someone who needs to read exactly what you have to say. It could change their day.. or their life...

> Chelsea

----------

From: "Sharon O'Shea"

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:30:33 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

ChelseaRI:

Happy to hear from you. And you're right, of course, when you say that it's when we least feel like it that we have to do whatever it is we're avoiding. I'm guilty, guilty, guilty of the same thing. After 15 years of sobriety, I still need a kick in the ass to do the right thing for myself. And now that I'm disabled, and have the PERFECT all-purpose, all-occasion excuse, I have to be really honest with myself about why I am not doing something.

I'm just happy you're here, happy you're okay, happy you find something of comfort here, and happy that you can provide comfort to others -- like me.

You're very honest. That will come in very handy. For many years, I sat in meetings, feeling angry, unhappy, frustrated, whatever, and I wouldn't share it, because I was under the impression that I was supposed to stay in the positive. Consequently, I wasn't getting a lot out of meetings, because no one knew I needed help.

Take care. K eep writing. Remember what I said about judging your writing. Don't bother. Here, it's what you say, not how you say it, that matters.

From: "Mary Kennedy"

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:31:37 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Welcome back, Chelsea.

ChelseaRI wrote:

> I haven't posted here in a week or so and just wanted to say a few things. First off..thanks everyone for keeping this site alive. My life has its ups and downs, lately its been littered with a bit more chaos and depression then usual. When in the midst of not so great moments I tend to stay away from the very things that could help me out of the darkness. i isolate, shut off my phone, and sleep like i haven't caught a wink in months. i escape. Then I got an email from a regular poster here.. asking how i was, where was I?... That feeling of being missed, or having my absence noticed made me realize that maybe, just maybe i am likeable:) I came here, and I read your stories. I remembered that there are always problems greater then mine. Every sorrow is great to the bearer.

> Chelsea

> --------------------------------------------------

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:57:59 -0700

To: "Sharon O'Shea"

Subject: Re: What's your story?

When I was at my darkest it was a depression group on line that kept me going. It’s rewarding to know that you’ve gained strength here. I’m also sure you’ve given strength to others.

Deirdre

on 8/22/05 3:25 PM, ChelseaRI at Discussions@elephantonmain.com wrote:

> I haven't posted here in a week or so and just wanted to say a few things. First off..thanks everyone for keeping this site alive. My life has its ups and downs, lately its been littered with a bit more chaos and depression then usual. When in the midst of not so great moments I tend to stay away from the very things that could help me out of the darkness. i isolate, shut off my phone, and sleep like i haven't caught a wink in months. i escape. Then I got an email from a regular poster here.. asking how i was, where was I?... That feeling of being missed, or having my absence noticed made me realize that maybe, just maybe i am likeable:) I came here, and I read your stories. I remembered that there are always problems greater then mine. Every sorrow is great to the bearer.

> Chelsea

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From: Linnea

Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 04:09:47 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

to ChelseaRI:

When you isolate it makes it hard for those who love you to help. There is just so much we can insist on in terms of you sharing your feelings and difficulties as you're going through them. The most important thing we can do is remain open and safely available. One of the more challenging elements of that isolation is the apparent frenzy that takes place afterwards, the effort to "catch up" and get back into the swing of things once the sun comes out again. I know it's hard, but I think it's important to let others know when you feel the darkness coming so they can help you through it in whatever way they can. You know my mantra - Get It Before It Gets You. At the very least let others help you manage It along the way before It gets spinning out of control and everyone gets caught up in it. When we're caught up in it emotionally, the ability to help and be supportive gets diluted and compromised. I am here.

Love, Mom

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From: "Mary Kennedy"

Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 04:19:11 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

As always - perfectly said, Linnea.

Linnea wrote:

> to ChelseaRI:

> When you isolate it makes it hard for those who love you to help. There is just so much we can insist on in terms of you sharing your feelings and difficulties as you're going through them. The most important thing we can do is remain open and safely available. One of the more challenging elements of that isolation is the apparent frenzy that takes place afterwards, the effort to "catch up" and get back into the swing of things once the sun comes out again. I know it's hard, but I think it's important to let others know when you feel the darkness coming so they can help you through it in whatever way they can. You know my mantra - Get It Before It Gets You. At the very least let others help you manage It along the way before It gets spinning out of control and everyone gets caught up in it. When we're caught up in it emotionally, the ability to help and be su pportive gets diluted and compromised. I am here.

> Love, Mom

> --------------------------------------------------

From: pushycat

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:47:20 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mary W:

I am so sorry you had to find out about your 16 year old son like that...It is really sad the way Meth amphetimines affect men/boys...he may not be gay, he was just horney, and meth makes boys really twistedly horney...so it was all okay for him...its horible that he had to meet a preditor like that(they are called troll's in the gay world) they go to all kinds of places to pick up young boys they think are curious or gay and teach them the ways of adults, sadly their ways are not our ways...and more than one boy had gotten HIV from such people showing them the world...Please please talk to your son, ask him if he is gay, and get him into a group for gay teens if he is, so he can learn that not all guy people are like that, and he doesnt have to be like that, also, obvously, he needs to not do meth or anything, and if he is going to , tell him to snort it, not smoke it, shooting it is better than smoking it, people get LITERALLY CRAZier from smoking meth. smoking anything will change the chemical make up of a drug just enough to make it have different reactions. I hope you can handle the situation at hand, and Stay strong, your son might be confused and might not know that isnt how gay people act...just the ones he has come in contact with...and of course they are going to want a pretty little boy over someone who would have their old homo asses(sorry, but I dont respect trolls). so good luckand remember, talk to your son, if he is gay, support him if he denies it, support him, tell him it is okay if he is(becasue he may be lying) and just be there for him, becasue his actions may be due to confusion about his sexuality, not about drug addiction. but it will lead to drug addiction if not faced head on. Gay teens have a really hard time accepting their differences, and dont know how they are to act or who they are...you need to find out if he is confused, support him and maybe he wont do these things again...his drinking could stem from this confusion too...

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From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:42:21 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I've just published a blog item with links to a couple of interesting stories in the news today. If you read them, and are moved to tell your own story to encourage politicians to treat addicts rather than lock them up, please post on the Advocate thread or send Deirdre a private email.

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From: MaryW

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:39:14 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thank you for your reply. We have asked my son many times if he might be gay. If that was the only thing bothering him we would rejoice. I am sure he is confused. One day while driving in the car he just started talking saying how he is not sure if he is bisexual. He says that he is obsessed with girls but he just is not comfortable approaching them. We have taken him to psychologists, psychiatrists, and even mental institutions. He knows how to play the game. Tells them what they want to hear, and then tries to get xanax. He came out of a bipolar inpatient facility in June. The psychologists who assessed him said there are no real underlying symptoms, maybe a little depression. They gave him presciptions and sent him home. For two days we talked and tried to figure out what we will do next. The next day he took off to the beach and we didnt hear from him until the cops called and said he had to get out of their city. He has gone spiraling downhill since. He al ways has a lot of cash. Hundreds of dollars, and loses half of it. Lately he has been wired on something, I can't really figure it out. When he comes in blatantly drunk, he denies that he is even high. I have a 48 year old brother who is a heroin addict. been that way since he was 17. All of his friend have died from HIV and he also denies when he is high, even if he has to hold on to the walls to stand straight. My son is well aware of my brothers condition and has seen the damage done to my family. My mother threw him out when he beat me up when I was 15 years old. Unfortunately both my parents have long passed away. I am always depressed and worried. I hate this life. I can not help my son. We have done everything possible. Friday we are planning to throw him out again. He has absolutely no where to go. Most of the time he sits and home alone drinking. He has now been up for 3 days straight. Thank goodness he was not here when we came home from work today. I am scared and worried that he will bbe just like my brother. What a waste of a beautiful, talented life

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From: "Cynthia Garner"

Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:19:22 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Well, here's my story. My daughter is 28 years old and is a heroin addict and has been for the past 10 years. She has been in and out of detox, rehabs, jail - you name it. She has overdosed 5 times, the most recent was in May of this year. I petitioned the local court and had her Marchman Acted, which put her in a treatment facility to detox. We then went before the judge. The court appointed her an attorney. Before we went into the courtroom, she said she was asking her lawyer to get her outpatient treatment. Both of us knew that outpatient treatment would never work. I just looked at her and told her I hoped she was make the right decision. When we got into the courtroom, low and behold, she told the judge she needed a residential treatment program. The state can only hold a person for 60 days, so that is what was ordered. She entered the residential treatment facility at the end of June. Of course, I went for visits when I could and we wrote each other often. As a matter of fact, I told her about the Story of Carrick and a counselor at the facility brought in the tape for the residents to watch. My daughter called me afterward and told me how she related to Carrick's story. She said "that's me, mom." We were both filled with hope, as always. She was due to be released on September 1st. I received a telephone call this morning. She was kicked out the treatment program because she was using while in treatment. My world was shattered once more, but my anger took over. Shortly thereafter she called me. I am sure she was high. She started to "explain" to me what happened. I lost it. I told her that I'm done. Finished. I can't keep cleaning her up, only to have her go out and use again. I probably said some things that I will live to regret if she dies out there. I need to be strong, but it is so hard. I didn't tell her I loved her -- I just went off on her. Her addiction is so powerful. One week from getting out of treatment and she uses. I told her that trying to keep her clean is a 24 hour a day job and that I was quitting. She said she had no where to go and I told her that that was not my problem, but hers. She created the situation and now she must live with it. I have resigned myself to the fact that she doesn't want to get clean and sober....... and she only needs me when there is no one else around. She has a brother and a sister who are both done with her. I know there is nothing left for me to do, but as a mother, I am dying inside. How can I get through these days and nights not knowing whether she's dead or alive.

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From: Jo

Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 08:10:00 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Cynthia,

My heart goes out to you. I'm going through a similar situation with my daughter, and it finally came down to not letting her back in the house. She just turned 18, but she's been doing some type of drugs since she was 15 years old.

It was the same scenario - in and out of rehabs, back to using again when she got out. I caught her shooting up about a month ago, and I told her that she was not going to do drugs in my house, and if she did not get treatment and get clean, then she could not live here anymore, period.

She left with a friend she is living with now. Even though it's probably been the toughest month I've ever gone through - wondering if I'm going to get the dreaded call that she's in the hospital or been arrested - it's also been a healing time for me.

Try and take a step back from the situation and realize you are doing the ONLY thing you can to save her life. Obviously jail and rehabs aren't working. Your daughter knows you want her to get help and love her, but she also knows you have always been there when she's using to pick up the pieces. Let the pieces fall where they may this time. Everyone says it, even Carrick herself, that there is nothing parents can do unless your daughter wants it for herself.

Most importantly, take care of yourself. I know you're worried, and yes your daughter may end up overdosing, but that is what she's chosen for her life. It sounds like you've done everything humanly possible to try and help her, as I did with my daughter, so try and take some comfort in that. Also realize that you are not alone. I am seeing a therapist that really put it in perspective for me. He said, All I'm hearing is your daughter this, your daughter that - how are YOU doing? When I thought about it, I was putting all of my energy into trying to solve a problem that I couldn't solve.

I know it's harder on us, as parents, to let our children fall, especia lly when drugs are involved because it might involve death, but we let them drive as well, knowing full well that they might get in an automobile accident. Let her take the steering wheel and hope it leads her down the right road.

My prayers are with you........

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From: "Cynthia Garner"

Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 10:29:01 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Reply to Jo -

Thank you, Jo, your message gave me the encouragement I need. I took a good inventory of myself last night and realize that I am only contributing to her addiction by not letting her feel the pain that he addiction has caused. This morning, I got up, showered, put on make-up and did some laundry, just to feel a little normal and believe me, it helped. The situation is what is is and I must keep telling myself that these are her choices -- I did, however, tell her yesterday on that phone that she had two choices: her addiction or her family. I told her that I was no longer willing to "visit" her or "see" her while she was still actively using because that had always been on her terms. She would call and ask me to meet her somewhere and while driving to meet her, I fretted whether or not she was sober. It was an emotional nightmare. More often than not, she was not sober, but not totally "out of it," just enough that I, as her mother, could tell. I told her that I won't do that anymore. The choice, once again, is hers. I will love her endlessly til the end of my days, but I won't accept her behavior as part of my life any longer. Thanks, again, Jo. Keep us both in your thoughts and prayers.

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From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:57:51 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Cynthia,

Reading your post, I felt my stomach drop the way I did whenever I got a call from Carrick and she told me she was doing something, or thinking about doing something (like leaving a rehab), that I knew could kill her. And I remember the anger, as well, which really is a superheated frustration, I think, that I couldn't do anything to stop it.

I really think that the best way to get through these days is to take good care of yourself ? eat well, exercise, talk to people, engage in life ? so that you will be as healthy as possible when your daughter is ready to do what she has to do and needs your support, again. And if she never is ready to do her part, well, at least she won't be taking you down with her.

There are many times that I didn't tell Carrick that I loved her. The words would have gotten caug ht in my throat. But she knew I did, nevertheless, and I'm sure your daughter does, too.

I just got a call from a young man who Carrick took off with in her second-to-last detox. He had a car. We hadn't heard from him for awhile; Carrick was worried. But he's doing as well as Carrick, he says, "staying sober and working too hard to get into trouble." That's the second call like that I've received this week. They give me hope, and I hope you'll have reason to restore yours again, too.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

On Aug 27, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Cynthia Garner wrote:

> Well, here's my story. My daughter is 28 years old and is a heroin addict and has been for the past 10 years. She has been in and out of detox, rehabs, jail - you name it. She has overdosed 5 times, the most recent was in May of this year. I petitioned the local court and had her Marchman Acted, which put her in a treatment facility to detox. We then went before the judge. The court appointed her an attorney. Before we went into the courtroom, she said she was asking her lawyer to get her outpatient treatment. Both of us knew that outpatient treatment would never work. I just looked at her and told her I hoped she was make the right decision. When we got into the courtroom, low and behold, she told the judge she needed a residential treatment program. The state can only hold a person for 60 days, so that is what was ordered. She entered the residential treatment facility at the end of June. Of course, I went for visits when I could and we wrote each other often. As a matter of fact, I told her about the Story of Carrick and a counselor at the facility brought in the tape for the residents to watch. My daugh ter called me afterward and told me how she related to Carrick's story . She said "that's me, mom." We were both filled with hope, as always. She was due to be released on September 1st. I received a telephone call this morning. She was kicked out the treatment program because she was using while in treatment. My world was shattered once more, but my anger took over. Shortly thereafter she called me. I am sure she was high. She started to "explain" to me what happened. I lost it. I told her that I'm done. Finished. I can't keep cleaning her up, only to have her go out and use again. I probably said some things that I will live to regret if she dies out there. I need to be strong, but it is so hard. I didn't tell her I loved her -- I just went off on her. Her addiction is so powerful. One week from getting out of treatment and she uses. I told her that trying to keep her clean is a 24 hour a day job and that I was quitting. She said she had no where to go and I told her that that was not my problem, but hers. She created the situation and now she must live with it. I have resigned myself to the fact that she doesn't want to get clean and sober....... and she only needs me when there is no one else around. She has a brother and a sister who are both done with her. I know there is nothing left for me to do, but as a mother, I am dying inside. How can I get through these days and nights not knowing whether she's dead or alive.

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> From: Jo

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:19:49 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Cynthia,

You have taken the most important step in what will be, hopefully, your daughter's recovery.

I think it's important for our children to know that we love them, yet there are boundaries. In a drug addict's world the boundaries are so minuscule, but you, as a mother, have to set them.

You and I will both love our daughters until there is no life on earth. I will pray for both of you, and maybe life will surprise you and your daughter will finally realize this is not the road she intended to travel down.

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From: "Jennifer Smith"

Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:16:49 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I have been reading the discussions here occassionaly over the last few weeks. I have gained alot from them. I wanted to say thank you to Chelsea for her comment about how she tends to escape from what's probably good for her when where feeling down. Im a pro at doing this. In fact, I push people away from me that matter the most. I wish I had the strength to not push others away. I need to find out why I do this. I know it's a fear I have and a trust of others that I lack. Thank you again for everyone's comments and honesty. Thanks Thom for all your hard work here. It's an amazing site. You're a very talented writer. :cool: Jenn

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From: Linnea

Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 06:41:22 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Cynthia,

As Jo mentioned, we will love our children forever and in spite of themselves no matter what. What you have done for your daughter makes that more than clear and not saying it in the last phone call doesn't change any of that. I used to fear that any verbal tirade of anger and frustration might be the last thing I say to my daughter and get despondent over having to live with the pain of that. You are scared, you are angry, you are frustrated, you are spent...you are human. And no one is going to hold you accountable for failing to say I love you in that phone call except yourself. We are so good at beating ourselves up. It happened the way it did,that's all. But I know how you're feeling and the only thing I can say is try to accept that those three words won't make or break it for your daughter. You've already discovered that saying it hasn't made much of a difference with her choices. Neither will not saying it. We don;t have that power, you know. She knows you love her, although at the moment she might not know that she knows it.

I'm sad for your sense of sadness and helplessness and my thoughts are with you. Take care of you.

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From: "Sharon O'Shea"

Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:07:39 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I wanted to quit drinking long before I did. And as I have made abundantly clear, ad nauseum, I am an atheist. But one day, after a bad night, and when I was very depressed, I just stopped in at the Catholic church here in town when there was no one there, and it was very quiet, with that hushed, echo-y sound. I just sat there and sat there and kept asking, "What do you want me to do?" The answer came from inside me, of course, and it was, stop drinking. I waved that off, no, not that, and asked again. "What do you want me to do?" STOP DRINKING. "Oh, okay, fine. I can see that you're not going to be any help at all." Understand that this is me talking to myself. Comical, maybe, but that was the beginning of the end.

I went to an Alanon meeting a few days later (it was easier for me to admit that I was a co-dependent), and left there choking back sobs as I walked up Fifth Avenue. People must have thought I was dying. I knew the jig was up.

Tha t night, I had to have a business dinner with a bunch of writers. Writers are notoriously socially inept. They don't know how to talk to to people. It would have been much easier if I'd had a few drinks, but I had promised myself that I would have one drink that night, and then I would stop. I guess I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. And I did. I had one drink on the night of October 15, 1990, and haven't had one since. I don't know why that story would help anyone. I just know that every story I've heard in AA has helped me. I am fascinated with people, and with what makes us tick. I kept going to meetings at the beginning just because I wanted to hear these stories. After a while, it sank in that they were talking about me. I mean, really, what's inside me, what makes ME tick. Most importantly, I wanted what they had.

I think that's the crux of it. You have to want what sober people have. You have to want it more than anything. And I did. I wanted to like myself, respect myself, be worthy of respect and live a life without secrets. AA helped me do that, day after day, year after year. It is still helping me do that today, this minute as I sit here, because I wouldn't be here if not for two people I met through AA. I would not have the full, interesting, exciting and fulfilling life I have now, and god only knows how much I would have lost in the intervening 15 years. A lot, I suspect. Maybe everything.

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From: MaryW

Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:03:29 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Things are not gettng any better. Now when my son is straight he has experiencing delusions. Not that he believes so. Can meth amphetime screw up your brain cells that you start to detach from reality. My husband had just taken to a psychiatiric hospital for an assessment. We are very scared now, we are starting to believe we will need to care for him the rest of his life. He is still drinking, but hiding it much better. He gets very angry with himself when he gets caught, because he thinks he has fooled us into believing his straight. He says he has found a higher power through an Emily Dickeinson poem. I am happy to hear that anything is giving him serenity within his own self. But he also believes he influences tv and music. We are very scared. THis child was a briilliant writer. COuld it be a cross beteween genius and insanity? He still has plenty of money and always finds a way to buy beer and liquor. He is oly 19. He has accumulated quite a few tickets, p ublic drunkedness, swearing in public, and today reckless driving when he stole my car while I was at work. He believes he is just happy because he has found faith. Even though we find cases of beer in his room. Did the meth amphetines destroy his mind. He talks to himself and laughs to himself. He says he is getting control of it. I am very sad. This is heartwrenching. I can not help him.

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 00:10:31 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mary-

I'm not sure what advice to give because I'm not a parent, I've never been in your position. I just wanted to say that methamphetamine can ABSOLUTELY cause psychosis. My father was in a psych ward when he was 19 for just that. He tried drinking to help what was going on, but he thinks it just made it worse. The ideal thing would be to get your son into a dual diagnosis unit somewhere, get him detoxed off of everything, and then see what symptoms he is left with. At the very least, you should probably try to get him to a psychiatrist. Although I know that may be difficult since he can't recognize his own delusions. I actually, as odd as this may sound, witnessed this same thing in my landlord- we live downstairs and he used to live upstairs in the house. He did meth and had some serious delusions that lasted for days afterwards- we got involved because he started pouring buckets of water into the walls and floor, which came out of our ceiling, flew out t hrough the ceiling fan, etc. because he was CONVINCED that there was a fire in the floor or in a piece of furniture. He threw a couch off of his deck. And he also started drinking heavily at that point... he didn't want to admit that he was using, nevermind that he was having delusions, so there was nothing we were in a position to do. We were just happy that he moved out. Anyway, that's just an example of something I have witnessed. I hope you can get your son to the help that he needs.

~Jennifer

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From: MaryW

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:44:47 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thanks for your input Jennifer. My son was admitted to a hospital last night and the doctor said pretty much the same thing. We need to wait to see when he is clean and sober to realize what his real symptoms are. Thanks again.

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From: "Carrick Forbes"

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:42:28 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

My heart just sunk reading these posts. I will always feel a certain amount of guilt for having caused the pain, frustration and fear I caused within my family. At the same time, it is not hard to remember what it felt like as the addicted child and sibling, with the added foresight of being fresh in my recovery from drugs and from a "dope-fiending" mentality.

I can remember, not that long ago really, feeling like my parents abandoned me. I tried to convince myself and everyone who would listen how and why my parents were cold, heartless people. I also know that deep down I knew better, I knew that there came the time when I had to be responsible for my own decisions.

I would never say this, I remained convinced of my unaccountability. I manipulated not just my family but everyone i came in contact with, and when they were not buying it I would make sure that they wished they had.

Now, I can say that I am grateful not for my parents "tough love," but for their unending support in my recovery and their unending commitment to there own and the welfare of the family as a whole. I now find myself sometimes defending my parents decision to not let me back into the house untill I was sober. I was forced to be accountable and ultimately responsible for my own actions, which freed them up to take care of themselves and each other so they were better prepared to help me when I did reach out for it.

I cannot imagine what it must feel like for a parent with an addicted child. I will say however, dont sacrifice your mental and physical health and clarity for an ADULT child that is not yet willing or able to work their own recovery, no one is to gain from that. I have a great deal of admiration for all the parents and family members living with an addicted family member.

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From: polly1283

Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:18:55 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Cynthia Garner,

I just read your story (even though it has been out there for several days, I just managed to find it). I wanted to tell you that you are SO not alone. There are so many of us who understand just how anguished you are because we are on the same road. My 22 year old son is a heroin addict and we have 5 rehabs and now court issues in our realm of new experiences. When a warrant was issued for Ben because of drug-related theft, we knew that we had to let go and allow him to experience the consequences. It will always be hard for us but we are learning to live again and have a life outside of Ben's addiction. We are there for him when he is clean and working towards a future, but we will never bail him out again. He can no longer live with us and, at times, we are so sad when we think of all of the good times we could be having with him now. He should have graduated college this year. He should be with us, but he needs to grow and so do we - we n eed to build on whatever we can with our dear Ben, but back off when he makes the wrong choices. Anquish? Oh,yes, how I understand that feeling. So many of us understand that feeling. So few parents ever talk about it with others. We need to talk about it and educate others to this huge problem. We need to advocate, like Deirdre says, for better and more readily available treatment for addiction.

Most of all, we need to know that we are good people who love our children deeply and we are not at fault. Here is something that was sent to me by a friend and I taped it above my desk.

Hope it helps you as it did me.

LETTING GO

To let go doesn't mean to stop caring, it means I can't do it for someone else.

To let go is not to cut mself off, it is the realization that I can't control another.

To let go is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.

To let go is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.

To let go is not to try to change or blame another, I can only change myself.

To let go is not to car for, but to care about.

To let go is not to fix, but to be supportive.

To let go is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.

To let go is not to be in the middle arranging outcomes, but to allow others to effect their own outcomes.

To let go is not to be protective, it is to permit another to face reality

To let go is not to deny, but to accept.

To let go is not to nag, scold, or argue, but to sea rch out my own shortcomings and to correct them.

To let go is not to adjust everything to my desires, but to take each day as it comes and cherish it.

To let go is not to criticize and regulate anyone, but to try to become what I dream I can be.

To let go is not to regret the past, but to grown and live for the future.

To let go is to fear less and love more.

Good luck And keep up with this site. It helps so much to know that others understand and relate to your pain.

Polly

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From: "Sharon O'Shea"

Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:20:17 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Great, Polly. Each one, teach one. You can't teach it unless you know it in a deep, deep place. That's why I know you're going to be okay.

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From: "mary zeszut"

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:26:45 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

DEAR CYNTHIA,I JUST READ YOUR STORY FROM A FEW WEEKS AGO AND MY THOUGHTS ANF PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER, IT SEEMS TO ME WE ALL HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON, AS A PARENT OF AN ADDICT, IT IS SO HARD TO LET GO. IAM STILL STRUGGLING WITH LETTING AMY GO. I TALK A BIG TALK AT TIMES, BUT IT IS EASIER SAID THEN DONE. WE WANT OUR CHILDREN TO SEE THE PEOPLE THEY COULD BE. AND YET WHEN I TALK TO HER, SHE REALLY DOESN'T HEAR ME AT ALL. SHE IS CONSUMED WITH THE DRUG. YES, SHE FEEDS STRAY CAT, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE YOUNGER SISTER SHE HAS. DOESN'T SEEM TO GIVE A HOOT ABOUT HER. DOESN'T KNOW JUST HOW MUCH HER YOUNGER SISTER PRAY FOR HER AT NIGHT. HOPING BEYOND HOPE THAT AMY WILL RECOVER AND COME TO BE THE SISTER SHE WAS. IAM SO TORN ABOUT THAT, WHAT ABOUT HER FATHER, WHO HAS TO GO TO WORK EVERYDAY KNOWING THAT THE DAUGHTER HE SO CHERISHED, PROSTITUTED HERSELF TO ONE OF HIS CO-WORKERS. MY HUSBAND DOESN'T SAY MUCH, BUT WHEN HE DOES IT SIMPLY THIS. AMY WILL NEVER GET BETTER. IAM STARTING TO AGREE WITH THAT. BUT , I STILL LOVE HER, WILL FORGIVE HER SINS AND HELP HER, WHEN SHE IS READY. SHE IS SO GOOD AT MAKING US FEEL BAD. SO NOW WHEN I GET UPSET, I TAKE MY YOUNGER DAUGHTER TO THE MOVIES, OR OUT TO LUNCH AND JUST ENCOURAGE HER CONTINUING EDUCATION. I TALK TO LISA ABOUT HER FUTURE, HER BOYFRIEND AND WHAT WENT ON DURING HER DAY. ONCE AGAIN I WILL SAY THAT AFTER ALL WE HAVE DONE FOR AMY, AND IT HAS BEEN ABOUT 5 YEARS OF THIS CONSTANT CENTERING OUR LIVES AROUND SAVING AMY, I NOW KNOW IT IS AMY THAT HAS TO SAVE AMY. I THINK POLLY'S LETTING GO WORDS WERE GREAT.I DID PRINT THEM AND I CARRY IT AROUND WITH ME. I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT I KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RELIGION, BUT IT WAS MY SISTER ( MY FRIEND ) THAT SENT ME THIS EMAIL WHEN AMY WAS ARRESTED ON HER BIRTHDAY.AND I CARRY THAT WITH ME ALSO. MY SISTER WROTE, DON'T YOU DARE BAIL HER OUT. NOW THAT IS HARSH FOR MY SISTER, BECAUSE SHE IS A GENTLE SOUL. SHE CONTINUED BY SAYING ITS NOT YOUR JOB TO FIX HER, I TS THE LORDS. IF YOU TRUELY LOVE AMY, YOU WILL PUT HER LIFE IN HIS HAN DS SOLELY AND COMPLETELY, SHE CONTINUED TO SAY GET OUT OF GOD'S WAY, AND LET HIM DO HIS WILL IN HER LIFE. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO DO NOTHING BUT LOVE HER UNCONDITIONALLY, LOVING HER UNCONDITIONALLY DOESN'T MEAN BAILING HER OUT EVERY TIME SHE FALLS. EVERYTIME WE TAKE SOMETHING UPON OURSELVES AND TRY TO FIX WHAT WE THINK GOD CAN'T OR WON'T WE ARE DELAYING HIS WILL, IT WAS MY SISTER THAT SAID STEP ASIDE AND LET GOD'S WILL BE DONE. SO I KEEP THIS WITH ME AND READ THEM EVERYDAY. EVEN IF IT MEANS LOSING AMY, I WILL KNOW THAT WE HAVE DONE ALL WE CAN DO. I PRAY THAT YOU FIND PEACE IN YOUR HEART AND THAT YOUR DAUGHTER SEEKS RECOVERY.

----------

From: Jo

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:34:47 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

My daughter got arrested for, what else, crystal meth. It's been five weeks since I caught her shooting up.

We left her in jail for five days and then bailed her out. I'm not sure what to do with her at this point. We've had the "mother-daughter" moments, and the "I-want-to-kill-you" moments, as well.

We are at the lake house, and she is going to a very small high school to finish. She only needs English IV, since she got most of her other credits in the 10-grand-a-month rehab she was in.

I am at the point, though, that I love her, but I hate her at the same time. Is that wrong???? I mean, I want her to succeed, and I will do anything to make that happen. But does that mean I live at our lake house without my husband to make sure she doesn't relapse and risk our marriage?? My husband says it's not and do what you need to, but I know it is at risk. I mean, come on.

Well, that's it in a nutshell. Any suggestions???

----------

From: polly1283

Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:55:10 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jo, I read your story and I have been there.

The love-hate thing is normal, I think, because all of us who are parenting an addicted child have the same feelings. We love them so much because they are ours, a part of us, but they are now causing so much pain and they did not listen to all of our sage advice. The love will always rise to the top and the hate thing will leave when we see more of the child we love than the addict.

You will get to a place, like all of us must, where you will let go. You will not be able to protect your daughter if that is where she intends to go at this time in her life. She may need to go there, wherever that is, before she chooses to save herself. All of your protected isolation will not save her if she is not ready to be saved. Give her the choice to live under your rules in your house (whichever house that is) or to live somewhere else. She will make the choice herself, eventually, and you will need to be prepared to give her up if she does not choose your way. It may be that she makes bad choices, and it will be devastating for you, but she will never make those wrong choices because she doesn't love you. We cannot always "fix" things as we did when they were little. It is a hard thing for a parent to accept. Stay in touch and let us talk about this as you go.

Polly

----------

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:05:20 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I would like to share with you a very personal story about our family?s fight against drug addiction. Looking back our story started in 1998 with the first of many phones calls telling me my son Josh had just been arrested for possession of marijuana. He was than just 15 years old. What a heart wrenching call to receive about a child that was always in honors classes, gifted beyond belief, good looking and had his whole life ahead of him. We were not familiar with the symptoms of addiction and had no clue what was happening to my son. Never realizing how quickly drugs can take over a young life we bailed him out and caulked it up to teenage rebellion. I lived in denial for about a year thinking that he was just using at parties, justifying that all teenagers used and he would grow out of it. But to my surprise another phone call came and this time it was ? your son has been arrested for driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol, he is in Florida Hospital and will be transported to the Volusia County jail when released. This is when I realized that drugs where controlling him instead of him controlling his drug use. By this time he was close to 17 and using regularly. Arguments pursued, school was not attended, he was rarely home and when he was it was a constant battle. We would watch him walk out the door and not know if we would receive another phone call and maybe this time they would tell us he had been in a car accident or even dead. Our lives had become a nightmare. It was chaotic, unmanageable, frightening, frustrating, and totally out of control. We had many more run-ins with the law, many more appearances in courtrooms and eventually visitations at the local jail. We where in and out of drug counseling centers (out patient and in patient) but his drug use became uncontrollable. His list of drugs that innocently stared with pot became a list of very life threatening proportion. Pot, treated pot, ecstasy, GHB, pr escriptions, inhalants, cocaine, heroin, crack, crystal meth, and mush rooms just to name a few. Josh was using to feel normal by the time he was 20. He used daily, his tolerance was high, his weight declined, he was argumentative, and falling into a deep depression. I could no longer get through to him and had the sinking feeling that I was going to lose him. I was desperately searching for help. That is when I discovered a recovery program called S.A.F.E.

S.A.F.E. (Substance Abuse Family Education) is a long-term residential treatment program for adolescents between the ages of 14-23 and their families. They specialize in treating the whole family not just the addicted child. The treatment at S.A.F.E. is based on honesty, personal accountability, and the 12-Step Alcoholics Anonymous program, and has a high success rate. I have come to learn that addiction is a disease of the emotions and affects the entire family. It does no good to help the child if the family is still struggling. Josh is doing better now; he is on phase 4 of the 5 phase program. He has been in treatment for 11 months and hopes to commence by the end of the year. I truly believe this program has saved my son?s life and brought our family to a better understanding of the disease and a deeper respect and love for one another.

Josh and I went to our first NA meeting last night since he has been clean for close to 9 months. This is the first time he really understood what they where talking about. The steps work, having found a higher power helps him through his day and now I can say recovery is not a dream but a reality. He will always be an addict but he now has the tools in which to work through his problems without turning to drugs. And I have learned that his decisions are his. I can chose to support him as long as he is clean and I have the strength now to know I can walk away if he ever choses to turn back to drugs.

There is hope and there is recovery.

----------

From: "Sharon O'Shea"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:22:26 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

First, congratulations to your entire family for taking the steps to help your son AS a family. That's a huge commitment, and, in my opinion, a very necessary one. I am encouraged to hear about what is obviously a very enlightened program, because I do believe that addiction is a family disease. When I got sober, I went into counseling with someone who believes that permanent sobriety can only be achieved when all of the underlying issues of the family are addressed. Fifteen years later, I am still dealing with family issues, but they are different issues now, and I am doing it sober. The anger, resentment, and confusion are gone, and we deal with problems like adults, rationally. Again, congratulations to you, your son and your family, and good luck. You are off to a great start.

----------

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:32:53 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Carol,

Thank you for telling your story, which most of us here can relate to. And congratulations to Josh and you. There's no doubt that addiction is a family disease, and too few treatment modalities take this into consideration, or do so only in a cursory way.

I decided to look up S.A.F.E. on the Web, as I thought I'd seen it mentioned before. I did locate the S.A.F.E. website in my Google search, but I also discovered some troubling documents and a news story collected by an organization called the International Survivors Action Committee. ISAC's mission, it says, "is to expose abuse, civil rights violations, and fraud perpetuated through privately-owned facilities fo r juveniles." It specifically raises some questions about the use of force at S.A.F.E. and what seems to be a predecessor agency, STRAIGHT, as well as incidents of over-medication and cultish overtones to the program.

It is not my intention to question the treatment choice made for or by Josh. I believe that there are many paths to recovery. Nor can I assess how accurate ISAC's charges are, particularly since they are several years old, regarding the program today. I just wonder if you were aware of these charges, how you factored them into your decision making, and whether you had any reservations at all about the program based on your experience? Is there any indication of excess force or medication, in your opinion? Who recommended S.A.F.E. to you, and what convinced you that it would work where other methods failed? Are you worried at all about the charges that it is a "cult"? Many of us go through agonizing hour s (weeks, months, years) of trying to find a program that we believe w ill save our child's life, and then worry that we may have made a wrong decision. Any information about how you sorted out the information available to you might help others facing a similar dilemma. Thanks.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478.5064

On Sep 23, 2005, at 10:05 AM, Carol Levine wrote:

> I would like to share with you a very personal story about our family?s fight against drug addiction. Looking back our story started in 1998 with the first of many phones calls telling me my son Josh had just been arrested for possession of marijuana. He was than just 15 years old. What a heart wrenching call to receive about a child that was always in honors classes, gifted beyond belief, good looking and had his whole life ahead of him. We were not familiar with the symptoms of addiction and had no clue what was happening to my son. Never realizing how quickly drugs can take over a young life we bailed him out and caulked it up to teenage rebellion. I lived in denial for about a year thinking that he was just using at parties, justifying that all teenagers used and he would grow out of it. But to my surprise another phone call came and this time it was ? your son has been arrested for driving under the influence of dru gs and alcohol, he is in Florida Hospital and will be transported to the Volusia County jail when released. This is when I realized that drugs where controlling him instead of him controlling his drug use. By this time he was close to 17 and using regularly. Arguments pursued, school was not attended, he was rarely home and when he was it was a constant battle. We would watch him walk out the door and not know if we would receive another phone call and maybe this time they would tell us he had been in a car accident or even dead. Our lives had become a nightmare. It was chaotic, unmanageable, frightening, frustrating, and totally out of control. We had many more run-ins with the law, many more appearances in courtrooms and eventually visitations at the local jail. We where in and out of drug counseling centers (out patient and in patient) but his drug use became uncontrollable. His list of drugs that innocently stared with pot became a list of very life threatening proportion. Pot, treated pot, ecstasy, GHB, pr escriptions, inha lants, cocaine, heroin, crack, crystal meth, and mush rooms just to name a few. Josh was using to feel normal by the time he was 20. He used daily, his tolerance was high, his weight declined, he was argumentative, and falling into a deep depression. I could no longer get through to him and had the sinking feeling that I was going to lose him. I was desperately searching for help. That is when I discovered a recovery program called S.A.F.E.

> S.A.F.E. (Substance Abuse Family Education) is a long-term residential treatment program for adolescents between the ages of 14-23 and their families. They specialize in treating the whole family not just the addicted child. The treatment at S.A.F.E. is based on honesty, personal accountability, and the 12-Step Alcoholics Anonymous program, and has a high success rate. I have come to learn that addiction is a disease of the emotions and affects the entire family. It does no good to help the child if the family is still struggling. Josh is doing better now; he is on phase 4 of the 5 pha se program. He has been in treatment for 11 months and hopes to commence by the end of the year. I truly believe this program has saved my son?s life and brought our family to a better understanding of the disease and a deeper respect and love for one another.

> Josh and I went to our first NA meeting last night since he has been clean for close to 9 months. This is the first time he really understood what they where talking about. The steps work, having found a higher power helps him through his day and now I can say recovery is not a dream but a reality. He will always be an addict but he now has the tools in which to work through his problems without turning to drugs. And I have learned that his decisions are his. I can chose to support him as long as he is clean and I have the strength now to know I can walk away if he ever choses to turn back to drugs.

> There is hope and there is recovery.

----------

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:59:24 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

Those are old stories and ones that don't seem to go away. The program is not run that way any longer and hasn't been for some years. We are now a non-profit facility and hopefully moving away from the bad press. We are working hard to give a positive out reach to the community and also doing a large fundraising this year. We are redoing our site and will be finish the middle of Oct and have created new marketing materials. This is a hard program but it takes hard work to over come this dieses. I am a host mother in the program which means I house between 5 and 7 kids in the evening for dinner and sleeping. We have become an even bigger family. The kids are treated wonderfully and think of all the parents as extended family. I do not know of one child that happily goes to drug treatment but after a few months they realize they are in the best place for them. There is not one child that is in the program or that has graduated from the program that feels they where abused or mistreated. I do not know what it was like years ago and I have heard some stories from the previous owners and operators. All I can say now is that we have the most loving, caring and dedicated staff you could ask for. As a non-profit they are under paid and over worked. Our fundraiser this coming year is done in hopes for providing the needed funds to keep the program running and to offer scholarships to those that can't afford long term treatment.

I was given the information on SAFE from a co worker who had a friend go through the program. I have a hard time thinking of SAFE as a cult but it is a program that changes peoples lives and teaches the kids to depend on the 12 steps of recovery and to use them in there everyday life. It gives them the tools they need to be productive. It teaches them accountability for there actions. It teaches them respect for themselves and each other. It is a peer driven program and who better to relate to them than other kids with the same problems. If this is considered a cult than I am glad I am part of it. When we do CEO (community outreach programs) I am so proud to see my son stand in front of the audience and talk about a disease that almost killed him. To be confident in what he is doing and above all to be clean and sober.

I would recommend this program only to those that have commitment to help their children and them selves. It is a family program. It is hours of long work. It is not a drop your kid off and pick him up in 60 days. It is a minimum of 8 months and most take a year. It is Friday night meetings and Sunday classes. It is a strong support group for parents and is a commitment for at least a year. But I am glad I did it. I now can say I have done all I can do for my son. It is now his choice. If he choses to use again I have the tools I need not to be co dependant and not to be enabling. The addict is not the only person in the family that needs help. I hope I answered your questions. And believe me anyone who needs treatment for their child would not go wrong in sending them to SAFE. Just be ready to dig deep inside yourself too.

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

From: Thom Forbes [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:33 AM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Carol,

I decided to look up S.A.F.E. on the Web, as I thought I'd seen it mentioned before. I did locate the S.A.F.E. website in my Google search, but I also discovered some troubling documents and a news story collected by an organization called the International Survivors Action Committee. ISAC's mission, it says, "is to expose abuse, civil rights violations, and fraud perpetuated through privately-owned facilities for juveniles." It specifically raises some questions about the use of force at S.A.F.E. and what seems to be a predecessor agency, STRAIGHT, as well as incidents of over-medication and cultish overtones to the program.

It is not my intention to question the treatment choice made for or by Josh. I believe that there are many paths to recovery. Nor can I assess how accurate ISAC's charges are, particularly since they are several years old, regarding the program today. I just wonder if you were aware of these charges, how you factored them into your decision making, and whether you had any reservations at all about the program based on your experience? Is there any indication of excess force or medication, in your opinion? Who recommended S.A.F.E. to you, and what convinced you that it would work where other methods failed? Are you worried at all about the charges that it is a "cult"? Many of us go through agonizing hours (weeks, months, years) of trying to find a program that we believe will save our child's life, and then worry that we may have made a wrong decision. Any information about how you sorted out the information available to you might help others facing a similar dilemma. Thanks.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478.5064

On Sep 23, 2005, at 10:05 AM, Carol Levine wrote:

> I would like to share with you a very personal story about our family’s fight against drug addiction. Looking back our story started in 1998 with the first of many phones calls telling me my son Josh had just been arrested for possession of marijuana. He was than just 15 years old. What a heart wrenching call to receive about a child that was always in honors classes, gifted beyond belief, good looking and had his whole life ahead of him. We were not familiar with the symptoms of addiction and had no clue what was happening to my son. Never realizing how quickly drugs can take over a young life we bailed him out and caulked it up to teenage rebellion. I lived in denial for about a year thinking that he was just using at parties, justifying that all teenagers used and he would grow out of it. But to my surprise another phone call came and this time it was — your son has been arrested for driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol, he is in Florida Hospital and will be transported to the Volusia County jail when released. This is when I realized that drugs where controlling him instead of him controlling his drug use. By this time he was close to 17 and using regularly. Arguments pursued, school was not attended, he was rarely home and when he was it was a constant battle. We would watch him walk out the door and not know if we would receive another phone call and maybe this time they would tell us he had been in a car accident or even dead. Our lives had become a nightmare. It was chaotic, unmanageable, frightening, frustrating, and totally out of control. We had many more run-ins with the law, many more appearances in courtrooms and eventually visitations at the local jail. We where in and out of drug counseling centers (out patient and in patient) but his drug use became uncontrollable. His list of drugs that innocently stared with pot became a list of very life threatening proportion. Pot, treated pot, ecstasy, GHB, pr escriptions, inhalants, cocaine, heroin, crack, crystal meth, and mush rooms just to name a few. Josh was using to feel normal by the time he was 20. He used daily, his tolerance was high, his weight declined, he was argumentative, and falling into a deep depression. I could no longer get through to him and had the sinking feeling that I was going to lose him. I was desperately searching for help. That is when I discovered a recovery program called S.A.F.E.

> S.A.F.E. (Substance Abuse Family Education) is a long-term residential treatment program for adolescents between the ages of 14-23 and their families. They specialize in treating the whole family not just the addicted child. The treatment at S.A.F.E. is based on honesty, personal accountability, and the 12-Step Alcoholics Anonymous program, and has a high success rate. I have come to learn that addiction is a disease of the emotions and affects the entire family. It does no good to help the child if the family is still struggling. Josh is doing better now; he is on phase 4 of the 5 phase program. He has been in treatment for 11 months and hopes to commence by the end of the year. I truly believe this program has saved my son’s life and brought our family to a better understanding of the disease and a deeper respect and love for one another.

> There is hope and there is recovery.

----------

From: Steve

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:29:05 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Not to mention that AA itself has been accused of being a 'cult' and certainly, on its face, it has those 'overtones.' Now, I am not saying AA is a cult, but I have heard many outsiders make just that charge...

----------

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:35:44 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

I guess anything could be considered a cult if it changes your thinking. And kids using as these kids do need their thought processes changed. They have blocked out their emotions for so long they don't know how to feel. It is hard to know what will work and for who. But I know for my son it has saved his life. He was not always happy being in treatment but he stayed. And I thank God everyday he did.

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

From: Steve [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:29 PM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

----------

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:10:18 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thanks for clearing the air, Carol. May I suggest that you contact ISAC and ask it to re-examine its position regarding SAFE in light of the way the program is run today? If they don't, perhaps you should directly address the charges on your new website. It would be a shame if someone who could benefit from the program today was turned away by outdated accusations.

I know that several programs based on the therapeutic community model have been accused of being cults. I've also talked to people who are happy, well-adjusted and successful who say that they owe their lives to them. And as Steve points out, AA has, too. Whatever works

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478.5064

On Sep 23, 2005, at 11:59 AM, Carol Levine wrote:

> Those are old stories and ones that don't seem to go away. The program is not run that way any longer and hasn't been for some years. We are now a non-profit facility and hopefully moving away from the bad press. We are working hard to give a positive out reach to the community and also doing a large fundraising this year. We are redoing our site and will be finish the middle of Oct and have created new marketing materials. This is a hard program but it takes hard work to over come this dieses. I am a host mother in the program which means I house between 5 and 7 kids in the evening for dinner and sleeping. We have become an even bigger family. The kids are treated wonderfully and think of all the parents as extended family. I do not know of one child that happily goes to drug treatment but after a few months they realize they are in the best place for them. There is not one child that is in the program or that has graduated from the program that feels they where abused or mistreated. I do not know what it was like years ago and I have heard some stories from the previous owners and operators. All I can say now is that we have the most loving, caring and dedicated staff you could ask for. As a non-profit they are under paid and over worked. Our fundraiser this coming year is done in hopes for providing the needed funds to keep the program running and to offer scholarships to those that can't afford long term tr eatment.

> I was given the information on SAFE from a co worker who had a friend go through the program. I have a hard time thinking of SAFE as a cult but it is a program that changes peoples lives and teaches the kids to depend on the 12 steps of recovery and to use them in there everyday life. It gives them the tools they need to be productive. It teaches them accountability for there actions. It teaches them respect for themselves and each other. It is a peer driven program and who better to relate to them than other kids with the same problems. If this is considered a cult than I am glad I am part of it. When we do CEO (community outreach programs) I am so proud to see my son stand in front of the audience and talk ab out a disease that almost killed him. To be confident in what he is d oing and above all to be clean and sober.

> I would recommend this program only to those that have commitment to help their children and them selves. It is a family program. It is hours of long work. It is not a drop your kid off and pick him up in 60 days. It is a minimum of 8 months and most take a year. It is Friday night meetings and Sunday classes. It is a strong support group for parents and is a commitment for at least a year. But I am glad I did it. I now can say I have done all I can do for my son. It is now his choice. If he choses to use again I have the tools I need not to be co dependant and not to be enabling. The addict is not the only person in the family that needs help. I hope I answered your questi ons. And believe me anyone who needs treatment for their child would not go wrong in sending them to SAFE. Just be ready to dig deep inside yourself too.

> Carol Levine

> Sales Administrator

> 525 Technology Park, Suite 125

> Lake Mary, FL 32746

> 877-672-6789 - Phone

> 407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:09:50 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Yes, that's a good point Steve. If anyone is interested in discussion of twelve-step programs being very cult-like, there is a book called "Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult of Cure?" that I had to read for a course last semester... what my feelings on the question posed by the title are isn't important, I just think it's very interesting read that brings up some points that most of us have probably not considered before... has anyone else read it?

Carol- your son is very lucky to have a mother like you who is devoted enough to make herself part of his treatment and make a commitment to continue to help others as well. I'm 22, probably about the same age as your son, and I know how important family support is in recovery (since my parents are not at ALL supportive of my recovery)... i wish you and your son continued good luck (although luck may not be the right word) in recovery and thank you for sharing your story with all of us. :)

~Jennifer

----------

From: "Sharon O'Shea"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:13:59 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

There are very specific characteristics common to cults, and they have been identified and catalogued in a book called "Snapping," which I read in college. Don't remember the author, but I'm sure it's available somewhere. I can remember some of these characteristics, but not all. The main point of this book was that victims of cults experience an abrupt and total personality change, hence the title. They are usually required to cut all ties with friends and family, and reject their old lives completely. Sensory, nutritional and sleep deprivation are the most common tactics. Most are forced to work and to turn over all earnings and assets to the cult. Physical intimidation and beatings are sometimes part of the program. Various programs use some of these to varying degrees, but to me, the most dangerous is the requirement to discontinue relations with family members, for obvious reasons. However, involving family members does not in itself mean that all is well. Fam ily members can also experience "snapping," especially if they are convinced it is the ONLY solution for their child.

Anyway, if anyone is concerned, read the book and see if it sends up any red flags.

----------

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:46:50 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

In our program we do not cut ties with family members but instead try to built and repair the relationships that the addition has destroyed. We teach the kids to live life on life's terms. To deal with their emotions and to express themselves in a positive manner. They are taught to be positive role models and to respect everyone's needs. They take care of each other and support when needed or confront if necessary. There is no deprivation of any kind in our program. They are well provided for in loving family environment. All the kids that have come to live with me have gained at least 10 -15 lbs. They are healthy and active.

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

From: Sharon O'Shea [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:14 PM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

There are very specific characteristics common to cults, and they have been identified and catalogued in a book called "Snapping," which I read in college. Don't remember the author, but I'm sure it's available somewhere. I can remember some of these characteristics, but not all. The main point of this book was that victims of cults experience an abrupt and total personality change, hence the title. They are usually required to cut all ties with friends and family, and reject their old lives completely. Sensory, nutritional and sleep deprivation are the most common tactics. Most are forced to work and to turn over all earnings and assets to the cult. Physical intimidation and beatings are sometimes part of the program. Various programs use some of these to varying degrees, but to me, the most dangerous is the requirement to discontinue relations with family members, for obvious reasons. However, involving family members does not in itself mean that all is well. Family members can also experience "snapping," especially if they are convinced it is the ONLY solution for their child.

Anyway, if anyone is concerned, read the book and see if it sends up any red flags.

----------

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:43:54 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Carol,

When you have some time, I'd be interested in hearing more about the parent side of the equation. What exactly do you do? Group work? Led by peers or facilitated by SAVE staff? With the kids, without, or both? Is there outside reading or audiocassettes or DVDs? How do you become a host parent, and what are the expectations? Are the kids who come to the home all at an advanced level? How do you deal with it if one misbehaves? Who is helping you as you dig deep within? That sort of thing. Thanks.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

On Sep 23, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Carol Levine wrote:

> In our program we do not cut ties with family members but instead try to built and repair the relationships that the addition has destroyed. We teach the kids to live life on life's terms. To deal with their emotions and to express themselves in a positive manner. They are taught to be positive role models and to respect everyone's needs. They take care of each other and support when needed or confront if necessary. There is no deprivation of any kind in our program. They are well provided for in loving family e nvironment. All the kids that have come to live with me have gained a t least 10 -15 lbs. They are healthy and active.

> Carol Levine

> Sales Administrator

> 525 Technology Park, Suite 125

> Lake Mary, FL 32746

> 877-672-6789 - Phone

> 407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

> From: Sharon O'Shea

> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:14 PM

----------

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:09:34 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

Thom,

Since this is a family program - parents attend our own therapy group sessions, we take new parent classes to teach us about addiction, Study groups on the 12 Steps, Have Rap sessions as the clients do, take RSC classes, T.E.A.M. training in case we have problems in our homes, etc. We have what we call Life and Family weekends where we all come together for different raps and also to know what our children are doing everyday of their lives in treatment. Basically we go through treatment as our child does. Friday nights is open meeting where we all come together and learn what our son or daughter has earned during the week, etc. We use this time to take our classes or have our rap sessions. Sunday afternoon we also come together for the same type things. Each child writes a Moral Inventory everyday. As parents we are expected to write 12 before we earn parent responsibilities. Parent responsibilities gives us the privilege to open a host home and be around other clients. I had to earn my responsibilities, take a host home class, take T.E.A.M. training, background check, fingerprinted, medical history. Our homes are changed to facilities recover. No alcohol in the home, knives are locked up, phase rooms are cleared for lower phasers for safety. The upper phasers are responsible for the lower phasers and watch them constantly. It is their responsibility to pass on what they have learned.

First phase the clients are the most important ones to the group. They work strictly on themselves and their addiction with no outside influences. This is the only time they are cut off from their own families. Mostly to give everyone a break from the chaos that has been going on and time to learn and think. They are read to by old comers, helped, watched, never left alone. They take their food first at dinner and basically made to feel important. As they progress they earn talk - which is a 15 minute amends talk with their families after Friday night meetings, and than can progress to T&R which is talk and responsibilities. After 28 days they can earn second phase which gives them the ability to go home to their own home if it has been opened as a host home. Sometime the kid progress more quickly than the parents so it all depends. As I have said this is a family center so as parents we must show are kids that we a re committed to the program and they are here for the long haul.

This is a very intricate program and not something I can write everything we do. I have been in the program for 11 months and still learning. My son is on 4th phase and ready to go onto the 5th and final phase of treatment. He is going to school, making friends outside the building, attending NA meetings, etc. It is a phase program, gradually working them back into society.

The phases are listed at the site. As I said the kids can start to come home after reaching 2nd phase as long as the parents have done what they need to do. The last thing you want is to put a child back into the same environment they came from. We all have a role in this disease and it teaches us has to better interact with our kids. What we where doing did not work. We are all at points we are willing to try another approach. Normally kids will not misbehave in a host home because they usually have respect for the parents that take them in. Plus its down time and fun time. It is a family environment. We have had incidents happens and we are trained to verbally talk the kids through he problem or if we have to physically take them into the phase room so they can calm down. Thr other clients usually see if a problem is coming and do everything to talk with the client who has the problem.

I can send you a package of our program if you like.

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

From: Thom Forbes [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:44 PM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Carol,

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478.5064

On Sep 23, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Carol Levine wrote:

> In our program we do not cut ties with family members but instead try to built and repair the relationships that the addition has destroyed. We teach the kids to live life on life's terms. To deal with their emotions and to express themselves in a positive manner. They are taught to be positive role models and to respect everyone's needs. They take care of each other and support when needed or confront if necessary. There is no deprivation of any kind in our program. They are well provided for in loving family environment. All the kids that have come to live with me have gained at least 10 -15 lbs. They are healthy and active.

> Carol Levine

> Sales Administrator

> 525 Technology Park, Suite 125

> Lake Mary, FL 32746

> 877-672-6789 - Phone

> 407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

> From: Sharon O'Shea

> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:14 PM

> Subject: Re: What's your story?

> There are very specific characteristics common to cults, and they have been identified and catalogued in a book called "Snapping," which I read in college. Don't remember the author, but I'm sure it's available somewhere. I can remember some of these characteristics, but not all. The main point of this book was that victims of cults experience an abrupt and total personality change, hence the title. They are usually required to cut all ties with friends and family, and reject their old lives completely. Sensory, nutritional and sleep deprivation are the most common tactics. Most are forced to work and to turn over all earnings and assets to the cult. Physical intimidation and beatings are sometimes part of the program. Various programs use some of these to varying degrees, but to me, the most dangerous is the requirement to discontinue relations with family members, for obvious reasons. However, involving family members does not in itself mean that all is well. Family members can also experience "snapping," especially if they are convinced it is the ONLY solution for their child.

> Anyway, if anyone is concerned, read the book and see if it sends up any red flags.

> S.

----------

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:25:53 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thanks, Carol. I all sounds very good. I would be interested in receiving a package. Deirdre and I would have been very open to such an experience but there was nothing like that around here and, of course, it depends on the willingness of the child to participate, too. We did, in fact, attend our share of group sessions at various programs over the years, but they were not done very well and there was no follow through. Some of them may have done more harm than good as a result.

We have been invited to speak as a family at the Carolinas Conference on Addiction and Recovery on Oct. 5, replacing Cecil Williams, who is ill. The focus of the four-day program is "Addiction: A Family Disease."

If anyone else has some informat ion or stories that they could share with us before we go to the conference, I'd appreciate it. We will, of course, be talking from our own experience, but one of the points I know we want to make is that recovery comes in many forms but here are paradigms we should be shooting for.

Thanks again.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478. 5064

-------------

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:01:35 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

I will get one out to you. We are in the process of conducting our own major fundraisings for the program and our first one is Nov. 3rd. We have Rick Cua coming as the guest speaker. We are trying to raise awareness for our program and money to help with scholarships for those that can't afford treatment. I will attach the flyer for you.

Willingness is not always a factor. We have the Marchman Act here in Florida that enables parents to get the child court ordered to a program. Sometimes it takes a few weeks to turn them around so that they can see that they actually have a drug problem and admit it. But eventually with support and counselling they see how unmanageable their lives had become.

Your in recovery.

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

From: Thom Forbes [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 7:26 PM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

If anyone else has some information or stories that they could share with us before we go to the conference, I'd appreciate it. We will, of course, be talking from our own experience, but one of the points I know we want to make is that recovery comes in many forms but here are paradigms we should be shooting for.

Thanks again.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:18:10 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

In New York, a child can pretty much do what he or she pleases from 16 on, unless they break the law. We learned thus the first time Carrick disappeared at 16 and the cops told us that they were powerless to pick her up even if they saw her unless there was a warrant for her arrest or they observed her committing a crime. There is something called a PINs petition (Person in Need of Supervision) that you can obtain through family court, but it is administered by parole officers who have no sensitivity to substance abuse and we found it to be worthless. After 18, all semblance of control vanishes -- except that you are legally responsible for the child financially, wherever he or she may be, unless he or she obtains emancipated minor status.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478.5064

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:33:15 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

We hear this allot. We have children in the program from MD, VA, OH, NY, etc because of this law. I had my son Marchman Acted at 20 years old. Eventually he started signing them himself because they only last 60 days. But you can petition the court every 60 days and get a new one. Most of our kids are Marchman acted because it gives them a sense they they are required to continue treatment and if they do run away the police are more active in looking for them and bringing them back.

A Marchman Act is a means of providing an individual in need of substance abuse services with emergency services and temporary detention for substance abuse evaluation and treatment when required, either on a voluntary or involuntary basis.

Sometimes as parents we have to do what's in the best interest for our child even though it may not be what they want. It was the hardest thing I have ever done. I was an enabler. I wanted so badly for him not to be the way he was that I overlooked allot. He was very angry at me, but he got over it. And we have a wonderful relationship today and he even says thank you. I know I did the right thing for him.

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:39:15 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

How can a child from another state be Marchman Acted? Do the parents bring them to Florida under some other pretense and then have them served? Or do they use "escorts," as many of the wilderness therapy programs do, to deliver them directly to SAVE?

-Thom

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:50:11 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

I have heard both ways. But normally bring them to Florida themselves and once they are here have them served and taken to SAFE. I believe you have to have jurisdiction and the only way to achieve this is to be in the state. Our director is an attorney and he usually helps with the paperwork.

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

From: "Diane Spencer"

Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:08:34 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Our story:

Last Christmas (2004) the light was shed on our daughters heroine addiction. As with most of us we knew something was wrong, our daughter is now 23 and hasn't lived with us for three years. Still, we had a sense, but when we found out it was heroine it brought us to our knees. We had to let her go and ask her not to contact us until she was well. This was after we found out she had been stealing blank checks from us and cashed them while we were helping her She has been on probation since March and also failed many drug tests which put her in jail. We could take no more, this is so very hard. She had a problem in high school that we all got help for. We have spent untold days and nights in worry and dispair. So, tonight, after not hearing anything from her for 3 months a call came in from prison, on the answering machine it wanted a confirmation that we would take the call. We weren't home. Here I sit with that same feeling of dread. What has happened to my chil d? Did she leave somewhere along the line and I didnt know? And the sickest part of this is that if she's there at least we know where she is. I try so hard not to mourn but how do I ignore this hurt? I can't stay mad forever, I have to live. My husband and I have to go on each day. Anyway, thanks so much for listening. I will always hope and pray for her.

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From: "Virginia Jones"

Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 07:57:51 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Paula, What is the name of the treatment center in Florida and where is it located.

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From: polly1283

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:16:06 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Diane Spencer,

You are not alone. Your experience is shared by many of us and we all have felt blindsided by the whole thing. You are doing the right thing by letting your daughter go. My husband and I know that we need to let our Ben go (22 yr old heroin addict) but it is almost impossible since Ben won't let US go. He appears at our door with a haunted face and we cannot turn him away. But we have been through the same as you with jail time and all of the rest of it. This website has been the most helpful thing I have found since it all started 3 years ago. I thank the Forbes for starting it and have found great solace in reading and writing here. Keep in touch. Keep writing and reading and you will feel at least like you are being heard and understood.

Polly

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From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:31:25 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

I am sorry to hear that parents feel they have to let their children go. I could not give up on mine and he was in the fourth stages of drug addiction. He used to feel normal and was shooting up heroin. Today after treatment he is going to school, has good self esteem, been clean for 11 months and has a future other than jail or death. It takes great commitment from parents and a program that works. This has been the toughest year of my life in treatment with my son. I have learned that addiction is a disease of the feelings, that as a family we all share a part of it. No I did not hand him his first joint or his first needle, but I enabled him and ignored the signs. I could not give up on him and as a result I have my son back plus a healthier way to communicate with him. He will be 22 in March and will commence SAFE sometime after the first of the year. Addiction can not be treated in 30-60 or 90 days. It is a long term program and a family commitment.

The other thing I have learned is that if he chooses to return to using than I am able to tell him that I will support him in getting clean but I will not support him while he is using. We all have choices in life. The addicted have a tougher road. They will fight it all their lives. And believe me none of them want this disease. It is out of their control.

Seek long term help....get into a program that helps the whole family......

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

----------

From: polly1283 [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:16 AM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Diane Spencer,

Polly

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From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:42:20 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Carol, I don't presume to speak for Polly but I'm reading the same message when she says, "My husband and I know that we need to let our Ben go" and you say, "I will support him in getting clean but I will not support him while he is using."

We discussed this at the Carolinas conference the other night. It's the toughest decision a parent has to make. In our case, the outcome was positive. It won't always be. But that doesn't mean it isn't right. I certainly agree that a program that helps the whole family, like SAFE, is most desirable. Unfortunately, it' s not always feasible for any number of reasons.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478.5064

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:24:17 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

Thom - I will not support him while he is using but I did not turn my back on him either. I got him help. And it was the toughest thing I have ever done. I stopped enabling him in a positive way and gave him a choice to get help or be on his own. I guess what I don't understand is when people say they just throw them out. (and I am not referencing any people that have sent emails). I know when I has trying to decide what to do to help Josh I had numerous people tell me to kick him out. I just couldn't do that. We wouldn't kick a child out that had cancer or a mental problem but we find it easier to throw out people with drug problems. I think it is because we think that the drug problem is not a disease but a choice. I don't believe drug addiction is a choice.

Basically you are correct. After getting help for Josh I have learned that I can not support his drug use. But I also know I have done everything I can do for him. I just didn't turn him out at his lowest point. I have given him the opportunity to learn the tools of recovery. What he does with them is up to him. And I think it is a personal decision and each person has a different perspective of what they can tolerate. I was lucky....he basically wanted help and I know there are those that don't know they need help.

I guess Polly and I are saying the same thing - we have just done different things to help our sons.

Carol Levine

----------

From: Thom Forbes [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:42 AM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

-Thom

From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:19:25 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I feel like a babe in the woods yet I'll soon be 52 years old. Last week I woke up to the fact that my 14-year-old daughter has been using drugs for the past 2-years. I thought I knew the signs to look out for. Well... what I have learned in one short week is this:

1.I was blind and powerless over a situation happening in my own home and it was growing out of control.

2.Signs aren't really very obvious unless you are an experienced observer. And even then, it can get by you.

3. It is what it is.

As I read posting here, I feel anguish and fear. Anguish for all the family hurts surrounding all the situations described; fear that this will become a part of my life too.

I feel as though we are in a war and I'm unprepared. I have decisions coming up... ones that will affect my relationship with my two sons as well.

I guess my motivation to posting a note is to give light to the fact that we all own this problem (drug use) that our society accepts as a behavioral norm. I don't. I can't. I have a daughter with an addiction problem. It's my problem too because I love her. Tough love, yes. She is in a treatment program where she has to earn the right to talk to me. And she hasn't yet. This is just the beginning... and my heart simply breaks at our new reality.

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From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 10:36:37 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

"The other thing I have learned is that if he chooses to return to using than I am able to tell him that I will support him in getting clean but I will not support him while he is using. "

Carole, I believe this is pretty much what all the parents mean when they say they have to let their children "go." My personal line is "I will support you in your recovery but not in your addiction." And just because you KNOW it's a family disease doesn't mean the best treatment is available to you for numerous reasons including geography and economics. ONe of the limitations of treatment centers regarding family members is having a standard treatment message no matter how many times the family has been there before. Only once did I ever see anyone address "The Family in Relapse." And that was a workshop I took given by the woman who started the Family work at the Caron Foundation.

Deirdre

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From: polly1283

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 10:41:08 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Carol Levine,

I agree with you that we do not throw away our children because they have an addiction, and I agree that no one wants to be an addict. Paul and I have spent 3 years trying to help Ben. He has been to 5 rehabs and no, not for just 30 days at a time. 30 day programs do not work for Ben, 90 day programs do not work for Ben. Now that he is in the drug court system here in Wisconsin, some of his treatment options are out of our hands. But now we are trying to work with doctor who deals with suboxone and counseling and we are hoping, as Ben is, that this will help him. He wants recovery so badly, but has not been able to last in the real world of work and responsibility for very long before he relapses. Suboxone, like methadone, might be the only thing that can get him to the next step. Thom, you are certainly familiar with these issues and I appreciate your input. Throwing Ben away has never been an option, but sometimes, at the very lowest times, w e hurt so much that we want to run away from the whole problem. Not realistic, we know, but the feelings are still there sometimes. And the anger always surfaces when we catch him in the lies.

Carol, you are lucky, very lucky, and I hope that your son is able to move on from here. I know he must feel something like my Ben, when he said in a rare moment of complete honesty, "I talk to my old friends from high school and they are all graduated from college and moving on with their lives...I wonder how this ever happened to me...why did I ever try that first Oxycontin? Where did my life go?"

He wants a good life so badly, but he fights demons that we don't really know anything about.

Polly

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From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 10:45:11 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Reply to message 93

Linda,

Welcome. With your daughter in a rehab and your recognition of the family's place in the disease, at the moment you are on the recovery path though it can be long and filled with roadblocks. My heart breaks for your new reality also but I've learned to never completely trust my own sense of reality. This is why I check in with others and share with them situations as I see them. I hope you will continue to do this here. We try to make this as safe a place to do so as we can.

Deirdre

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:45:18 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Polly-

I so admire your strength and your commitment to helping and supporting your son in his recovery. I know everyone is different, but trying Suboxone- or maybe even methadone- I have some friends who have been on both- some found Suboxone to be useless but have done great on methadone and some have done well on both, so prefer Suboxone as it is easier to have a normal life that way- i guess I'm just trying to say that if suboxone doesn't work, methadone is always an option- has Ben ever been on it? Anyway, yeah, trying Suboxone might be the best thing that Ben can do for himself. Methadone saved my life... a few months before I started it, at age 19, I don't think anyone, including myself, thought I'd make it to 20... and if I did, I certainly never thought at that point that I'd celebrate the next three birthdays (20, 21, and, not too long ago, in July, 22) clean. I think that if some form of opioid maintenance is what Ben needs, that he has a great shot at making it, between the proper meds, counseling, and the support and love you will undoubtedly provide. Not long after my parents first found out about my addiction, (and after a few at-home cold-turkey detoxes that I only stayed clean for a couple weeks after), they took me to a doctor my Dad had seen when he went into a detox and rehab back in 1990, who specializes in addiction medicine, and he told them that the best thing they could do for me was to get me on methadone- suddenly the doctor was no longer the genius who saved my Dad's life, he was then a moron- which a number of friends and addiction counselors and doctors my parents spoke to also recommended.... my parents refused the idea and said they would not pay for methadone, nor could I live at home if i was on it (they still feel that way, as I have said before). I really believed that it would help me, but I had no options at that point, I didn't know or think I could get on methadone and get clean on my own until my parents were out of the picture and I had to do things on my own. I had been to rehabs and court-ordered to treatment and gone to AA meetings, but none of it ever stuck. So almost three years into it, I can still say that methadone is the best choice I ever made- i stopped using after two days on it... that may not be the case for everyone, but it has worked for me. So I guess I am just trying to say that Suboxone (it wasn't really an option three years ago, or I might have tried that first) may be the thing that starts to turn things around for Ben. I wish you and him all the best. Also, if Ben ever wants to talk to a peer (I believe we're the same age, yes?) about recovery and maintenance or whatever, I'd love to share my thoughts and experience or just lend an ear... so feel free to give him my email address, if you want. I don't know if you'd want him talking to other addicts because god knows I'm not perfect, and he probably has other peers to talk to, but I wanted to offer. I have found that talking to people around my ag e who are doing well always helped me in a way that older people didn't. I hope that makes sense.

Also, I have expressed the same sentiments (about where my high school friends are now and where I should be) that Ben did to my boyfriend and family so many times. I should have graduated from Bryn Mawr College this past spring and be starting grad school right now- if I hadn't started using heroin. My two high school best friends graduated from college this spring. One of them started using dope with me, but she stopped after a few months with no treatment whatsoever and has stayed off of it ever since (she still drinks and smokes pot sometimes like she used to before the dope, but she never went back to it) and the other developed a serious meth problem (which ended our friendship when I "mistakenly" said something to her about her apparently non-existent "addiction"), but graduated anyway and now has a great job. It just makes me so sad and frustrated when I th ink about all that I threw away and the life that I should have now... and I wonder why it was so seemingly easy for other people, even those that also had drug problems, to make it through the normal things in life. But I try not to think that way now- I know that I now have the opportunity to build a completely new life and can still do the things I missed out on, just a little later than most. I just hope Ben knows that he can still have that "normal" life that his friends have... he can still do anything he wants with his life, it will just take work on himself and work at staying clean (through whatever means works for him)...

Polly (and all of the other parents here discussing their children's addictions), your children are all very lucky to have parents who are so commited to helping them through their recovery.

~Jennifer

----------

From: "Kevin K"

Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:19:30 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I want to personally thank this family for there story and putting this on TV and in the face of alot of people. I am a recovering addict myself and the greatest thing my family ever did for me was telling be to get out and cutting me off completely. The dropped me off in a town 120 miles from home with a bag of cloths and a weeks rent ($65). I went to a 3/4 recovery house in the middle of the ghetto and laid in a bed for a few days to detox. Then got a job and tried to get by the best I could. I wasn't invited to Christmas birthdays or anything for a long long time. Almost five years later I am still clean still recovering and about to begin a new chapter in my live by getting married. I maintain a very good job and I am a productive member of society. After my parents stopped enabling me I was left to my own devices and like a typical dope feign i hated pain so i fought it one last time and got clean. For any other addicts or parents of addicts posrting on here i w ill share this with you. I heard this is a meeting a few years back. All the pain shame and guilt we feel as addicts is tremendous and sometime overwhelming. Take that pain and times it by 100 and then you have an idea what your parents and loved ones go through.

love you all

Kevin K.

28 years old

herion addict

:smile: :smile:

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From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:31:00 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

Jennifer

You sound as if you have found your way to recovery and thank you for sharing your story. What a wonderful 12th step....I am so happy that Josh was caught early enough in his heroin use that it didn't become such a problem that he could not recover.

I get new insights to addiction and recovery and know its a personal journey. My son is at a point where he seems to understand the steps and has the tools to use for recovery. But I know it is one day at a time, easy does it and think, think, think. Personal change is difficult and when you have a good support group around you it is possible. Good luck in your future endeavours. Again thanks for sharing.

Carol Levine

Sales Administrator

525 Technology Park, Suite 125

Lake Mary, FL 32746

877-672-6789 - Phone

407-562-5238 - Fax

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From: Jennifer Romano [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 12:45 AM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Polly-

I so admire your strength and your commitment to helping and supporting your son in his recovery. I know everyone is different, but trying Suboxone- or maybe even methadone- I have some friends who have been on both- some found Suboxone to be useless but have done great on methadone and some have done well on both, so prefer Suboxone as it is easier to have a normal life that way- i guess I'm just trying to say that if suboxone doesn't work, methadone is always an option- has Ben ever been on it? Anyway, yeah, trying Suboxone might be the best thing that Ben can do for himself. Methadone saved my life... a few months before I started it, at age 19, I don't think anyone, including myself, thought I'd make it to 20... and if I did, I certainly never thought at that point that I'd celebrate the next three birthdays (20, 21, and, not too long ago, in July, 22) clean. I think that if some form of opioid maintenance is what Ben needs, that he has a great shot at making it, between the proper meds, counseling, and the support and love you will undoubtedly provide. Not long after my parents first found out about my addiction, (and after a few at-home cold-turkey detoxes that I only stayed clean for a couple weeks after), they took me to a doctor my Dad had seen when he went into a detox and rehab back in 1990, who specializes in addiction medicine, and he told them that the best thing they could do for me was to get me on methadone- suddenly the doctor was no longer the genius who saved my Dad's life, he was then a moron- which a number of friends and addiction counselors and doctors my parents spoke to also recommended.... my parents refused the idea and said they would not pay for methadone, nor could I live at home if i was on it (they still feel that way, as I have said before). I really believed that it would help me, but I had no options at that point, I didn't know or think I could get on methadone and get clean on my own until my parents were out of the picture and I had to do things on my own. I had been to rehabs and court-ordered to treatment and gone to AA meetings, but none of it ever stuck. So almost three years into it, I can still say that methadone is the best choice I ever made- i stopped using after two days on it... that may not be the case for everyone, but it has worked for me. So I guess I am just trying to say that Suboxone (it wasn't really an option three years ago, or I might have tried that first) may be the thing that starts to turn things around for Ben. I wish you and him all the best. Also, if Ben ever wants to talk to a peer (I believe we're the same age, yes?) about recovery and maintenance or whatever, I'd love to share my thoughts and experience or just lend an ear... so feel free to give him my email address, if you want. I don't know if you'd want him talking to other addicts because god knows I'm not perfect, and he probably has other peers to talk to, but I wanted to offer. I have found that talking to people around my age who are doing well always helped me in a way that older people didn't. I hope that makes sense.

Also, I have expressed the same sentiments (about where my high school friends are now and where I should be) that Ben did to my boyfriend and family so many times. I should have graduated from Bryn Mawr College this past spring and be starting grad school right now- if I hadn't started using heroin. My two high school best friends graduated from college this spring. One of them started using dope with me, but she stopped after a few months with no treatment whatsoever and has stayed off of it ever since (she still drinks and smokes pot sometimes like she used to before the dope, but she never went back to it) and the other developed a serious meth problem (which ended our friendship when I "mistakenly" said something to her about her apparently non-existent "addiction"), but graduated anyway and now has a great job. It just makes me so sad and frustrated when I think about all that I threw away and the life that I should have now... and I wonder why it was so seemingly easy for other people, even those that also had drug problems, to make it through the normal things in life. But I try not to think that way now- I know that I now have the opportunity to build a completely new life and can still do the things I missed out on, just a little later than most. I just hope Ben knows that he can still have that "normal" life that his friends have... he can still do anything he wants with his life, it will just take work on himself and work at staying clean (through whatever means works for him)...

Polly (and all of the other parents here discussing their children's addictions), your children are all very lucky to have parents who are so commited to helping them through their recovery.

~Jennifer

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From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:59:06 -0700

Subject: RE: What's your story?

Polly,

Sometimes I get carried away in my praises of a program that I feel saved my sons life and forget that we are also told that sometimes you just have to have the tough love and say no more. I have been lucky. I got to the turning point in my life that I was ready to say no more when I found this program. I was ready to tell him that we was on his own and if he chose to continue the destruction than I could not be a part of it. He was in and out of treatment centers, courts, hospitals and jail. His last stay in jail was 30 days for violating probation. My life was a mess worrying about what he would do when he got out, he asked for help, he admitted he had a drug problem, he cried, I cried and than as we where all at our wits end a friend told be about SAFE. I had been helping Josh for 5 years. Watching his drug problem get progressively worse.

We where speaking in our family rap session this Sunday about our feelings about our children when they where using. And anger was certainly a prime one. And one thing we where told was it is OK to feel angry, it is OK that sometimes we want them to disappear, and even some people spoke of their children saying they wanted to die and maybe thinking this might be the best thing for them. Of course than you have to deal with the guilt that you feel that way. But I guess we all have at one time or another. Life can be so chaotic at times I want to just sit in my closet and cry. But I know their are other parents out there that have the same feelings and the feelings are not wrong. They are my feelings and if I talk about them with others who understand, and put them out there that maybe than I can get through them. (If that makes sense).

My son was very much like Ben. While in treatment for this last year many times he has said that he was embarrassed, angry, frustrated, sad about the fact that he was 21 and in drug treatment when he should be in college and living on his own and using the word "normal".... but he's not. Instead he is in recovery learning how to move on and he has accepted that. I am very lucky today and I thank God everyday that he shows me how to deal with addiction. One thing we both got from this program is a better understanding of our higher power. I think step 3 -Made a decision to turn our lives and our will over to God as we understood him" was the hardest step for me. Once I did and put his care in God's hand and gave up my controlling ways I got better. I couldn't fix him...I can only fix myself.

Josh will fight the demons everyday of his life. I can only hope that he is empowered now with the knowledge of how to fight them and will win the battle. I hope Ben will too.

Carol Levine

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From: polly1283 [mailto:Discussions@elephantonmain.com]

Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 1:41 PM

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Carol Levine,

I agree with you that we do not throw away our children because they have an addiction, and I agree that no one wants to be an addict. Paul and I have spent 3 years trying to help Ben. He has been to 5 rehabs and no, not for just 30 days at a time. 30 day programs do not work for Ben, 90 day programs do not work for Ben. Now that he is in the drug court system here in Wisconsin, some of his treatment options are out of our hands. But now we are trying to work with doctor who deals with suboxone and counseling and we are hoping, as Ben is, that this will help him. He wants recovery so badly, but has not been able to last in the real world of work and responsibility for very long before he relapses. Suboxone, like methadone, might be the only thing that can get him to the next step. Thom, you are certainly familiar with these issues and I appreciate your input. Throwing Ben away has never been an option, but sometimes, at the very lowest times, we hurt so much that we want to run away from the whole problem. Not realistic, we know, but the feelings are still there sometimes. And the anger always surfaces when we catch him in the lies.

He wants a good life so badly, but he fights demons that we don't really know anything about.

Polly

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From: "Linda McDonald"

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:49:51 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I have never written anything about my story until I saw the special on Carrick. I wrote Thom to explain to him how much I felt like Carrick, and yet my story is completely different.

My mom died when I was 17 very unexpectedly and I was devastated. We had a fight the night before. She was depressed as far back as I can remember and was always angry and yelled most of the time. As a teen it was hard for me. She was always sick with something, whether it was her back, or other problems, but she was always taking some kind of pill. We had a turntable full of medicines ranging from valium to phenabarbatol in our home.

Six months after she died, I got sick. I was having 105 fevers, inflammation in my joints and horrible headaches. For my whole senior year I went to school on prednisone and pain medicines from the doctor so that I could at least graduate. I was in the hospital many times being pumped full of IV demerol and other drugs to control the pain. Eventually they diagnosed me with Lupus, which later turned out to be a wrong diagnosis. I never took any drug before all of this, but I had the same tendency's of depression my mother had.

I have never recovered from that year, I am now 46. For years this continued and the problems got worse, my colon ruptured and then three back surgeries, just like mom. I was constantly prescribed medicine for pain and found myself doing what my mom did. To add to it all, I found out that my mother died as a result of an overdose of phenabarbatol, a very popular drug in the 70s.

I now go to a pain management center that freely prescribes whatever drug is your choice for pain, depression etc. etc. and I have not been drug free since before I was 18 years old. The difference between Carrick and myself is she is 20 and I am 46, her drugs were not legal, but mine are.

I watched this story in horror, feeling the pain she felt and the desperation, the tears, the fears and the hurt. I know the genetics of passing this on because my mothers father was like this as well as her sister and my sister.

I live month to month on appointment days to acquire the next doses of medicine that will last the month and run my life around them. I want to be drug free, but have no idea how to do so. Watching this show was a struggle and a blessing, but I sure need to talk to somebody about all of this. It is a scary world to live in when a substance controls your life and every moment is geared to the pill or the drug or the alcohol(which I will not do). Please if you want to talk to me would you? I could sure use the encouragement.

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From: Steve

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:40:29 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Just wanted to give a little Update. Thom emailed me today and pointed out that I hadn't posted in a while, and that I should come back... So, here I am. Things have been going fairly well... Ive been really busy. I work a day job, and took a second job working 3-5 nights a week. I also go to school 2 nights a week, so this makes for a very busy schedule...

I guess a lot of the reason I took the second job was because a) I need to keep up on my bills, and the one job isn't cutting it. and b) It leaves me with almost no free time. I find that (believe it or not) having to be to work the next day actually DOES motivate me to not get high... It's just so miserable if I am...

That said, I did get high last weekend, I'm not gonna lie. But, I spoke to my brother at length, which was good since I haven't spoken to him in a LONG time (at least not about my addiction). And the good news is that I've been clean for 10 days... I just keep working on it. But I had been avoiding my sponsor and my regular meetings for about the last month, and I've contacted my sponsor, and been going back to the meetings I was avoiding...

So, I guess the good news is that I am still trying to kick... Hopefully one of these days it'll stick...

Steve :smile:

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From: "Julie Spinn-Petocz"

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:47:04 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Steve, Glad you are still trying. I want to send you something I sent to Sharon when she was (or is ) in a bad place:I want to share a little analogy with you, forgive me if I don't take

> it to the literary realm.

> Consider the Old Testament. Use a jar filled with dry beans as the sum of our knowledge about a higher power at that point. Fill it until it will hold no more. Take the New Testament, i.e.: the teaching of Jesus, Mohammed, the Buddha. Add rice to the 'full jar'. It will hold an appreciable amount. Now we know all. Wrong. Pour water into the jar. That is what we are now learning about the existence of something beyond ourselves. Substitute self awareness, new age, Wicca, earth religions.... Now is it full and over? No Pour distilled alcohol in and it will go in without overflowing. Could there be more that will fit? Of course We have to keep learning and forg iving those who think enlightenment has ended, even if we see that most are blind to the evolution of human understanding of the cosmos and our environment.

Come on others. What do you think?

Thom, Can you help me move this to Religion and recovery?

Julie

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From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:26:03 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Since my story is still unfolding and I have yet to sit with my 14-year-old child since I put her in treatment just 2-weeks ago, I have so many questions and fears. What is addiction like? Is it always the number one thought each day you wake up? All day? Is it a physical craving? What is it that helps you step away from it? Can I even help my daugther assuming that she chooses to fight the elephant? My daughter is in S.A.F.E., a drug rehab for children in Orlando, Florida and yes, I believe in my heart this program is where we need to be. I'm learning alot... but there are things I don't understand and I haven't been exposed to yet. Can you describe addiction in concrete terms? Like... is it like when there is a plateful of brownies and though you are on a diet... you eat one and then the whole plateful just because...? Or am I being too nieve? What is it that one needs to stay the path to fight the elephant... having self control and self confidence? What elements of lif e's experiences come into play? I missed seeing the program on tv about your family... will it be aired again do you think?

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:49:01 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Linda-

Thank you for sharing your story with us. I think talking to people and saying that you want to do something about your addiction is a big step towards getting some help. I don't know if you have read any of the older posts here at all, but I also have pain issues (I have degenerative disc disease, which started when I was 19- I'm 22 now- and I'm currently pretty much completely bedridden even with the painkillers and other meds) and see a pain management specialist... so I feel like your situation is a little bit more complicated than just telling you to get off all the meds and go to rehab... the drugs you are abusing you are also taking for legitimate pain. I have to ask though- honestly, do you think you would be able to manage your pain without narcotic painkillers? My instinct is to say that when you find yourself abusing a prescribed medication, that you need to stop taking that medication... but pain makes that difficult, I totally understand that, and I also understand the depression and grief that comes along with chronic pain. When you take medications like narcotics or benzos over a long period of time, your body naturally will become physically dependent on them... but from what you said, it sounds as though you have more than just a physical dependence- from the way you talk about your reliance on those medications, it sounds like you have a psychological dependence as well, that you are taking them also for the emotional pain you feel. Is that how you feel? Am I drawing the right conclusion? Have you ever discussed your feelings about your life revolving around your drugs with the doctor who prescribes them or with any other doctor or therapist? Have you ever been to rehab? Have you ever been to meetings? Twelve step programs aren't something I particularly love, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't help you... and it might be a place to start to get some advice on how to better manage your life... but th is message board is also a good place to start to talk about these iss ues and get some feedback without being judged.

I won't get into my whole story, but it is VERY similar to Carrick's... I started abusing opiates at 17 and was a full-fledged junkie by the time I was 18... I tried numerous times and ways to get off of heroin, but I always went back to it. I got on methadone when I was 19 and it truly saved my life. I've been off of heroin for almost three years now... but not long into my treatment, the back pain started. I didn't initially start taking narcotics, but eventually had to take something for the ever-worsening pain. I gave it serious thought and discussed my concerns about taking pain meds given my addiction history with my pain doctor, my clinic doctor, my counselor, and some close family. I eventually came to the conclusion that being in pain was jeopardizing my recovery moreso than taking pain meds would- being in pain like that naturally made me want to run back to heroin because I knew it would stop the pain... anyway, I have been lucky enough and honest enough with myself and my doctors to not abuse my pain medications. And being on methadone, I don't feel anything when I take them, I get no psychological gratification whatsoever, only physical pain relief.

I can't tell you what to do about your problems... that's a decision you have to make on your own, perhaps with the help of your doctors. I can give you suggestions though... I don't think I'd tell generally tell someone with an opiate addiction to jump right into methadone before trying any other form of treatment... but with chronic pain issues, maybe methadone would be a good idea for you. It would help with your pain to some degree while also allowing you to start down a path of recovery. Then perhaps seeking out a doctor who is a bit more responsible in prescribing narcotics and monitoring his or her patients' progress would be a good idea.... and also being honest with them about your background is importa nt. Do you have a therapist or psychiatrist now? If not, that might also be a good idea to deal with your depression properly and talk about the issues you are struggling with. I don't know if any of this is helping you at all... it's just what has come to mind. But as I said, I can't tell you what to do... I just know what has been working for me... hopefully someone else will jump in and have some thoughts.

Tell us a little more about yourself, like the answers to some of the questions I asked you here... this is a wonderful forum to share things in. The Forbes family did a great thing by sharing their personal struggle with millions of viewers and by developing this website and keeping it a safe place for all of us to talk and get feedback without worrying about being judged. I hope you will stick around for a while and keep talking to us... I wish you all the best.

~Jennifer

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:58:32 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Steve-

It's good to hear from you again... I'm glad you're still here, I have been wondering how you are doing. Congratulations on the ten days... I know you get frustrated with this recovery thing, relapsing and staying clean, etc. But I have every confidence that you are going to make it... you have more tenacity with your pursuit of recovery than most... Many people would have given up and just gone back to using full time if things didn't work out the first time around in recovery. But you keep fighting for it, and I give you so much credit for that. I know you want it badly enough that you CAN make it...

:ooh:

~Jennifer

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:12:03 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Linda B.-

Those are some very tough questions that you asked... I don't know that I can fully answer all of them because some of those answers will be different from addict to addict... I have to do something right now, but later I want to try to reply to your questions when I can give them my full attention. I'm sure you will get some very helpful, insightful answers to your questions from others here as well. I'm 22 now, starting using heroin at 17 and got clean and on methadone at 19... so 14 doesn't seem all that long ago- and your daughter is very lucky to be getting help at such a young age- I hope she can get this recovery thing now- for me, getting clean young is great, I am lucky enough to still have many opportunities to do the things I missed out on without feeling as though I am too far behind (not that people can't get their lives back at any age- of course they can, but I'm glad that I, by the grace of god, will not be going through the horrors of add iction for decades upon decades)... hopefully I will be able to share some of my thoughts and feelings that may help you understand addiction a bit better. But I hope you ask your daughter these questions when you get a chance to sit and speak with her- her answers and personal feelings will obviously be the best way for you to understand what she is going through (and I think she is lucky to have a mother who wants to be involved in and understand her addiction and recovery). But until then, and for the sake of getting a variety of opinions and thoughts, I will give your questions some thought and devote some time to trying to answer them later on. :)

~Jennifer

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From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:48:41 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer, I thank you for your kindness and willingness to think through my questions. I look forward to your thoughts.

I have a very strong faith walk that began growing about 10 years ago. At one point on my journey I felt a little regretful that I didn't "get it" (the God equation) sooner in my life. I felt left behind. But, I soon grew out of that thinking... for two reasons. One, I really do like who I am choosing to be... and my past is part of who I am and will become. Your past has brought you to where you are now and like I say in my first sentence to you... I look forward to listening to you. I sense wonderfulness in you. May I say... don't look back with too much regret. You are going to help me and I thank you from the bottom of my heart... just as I help others through my past pains. It's real. it's honest. It's relational. I believe that's why we are here... (at least, one reason.)

And reason number 2 not to look back with too much regret: (ok, my sense of humor is going to come out): when I hit 50, (I'm now 51 so it still applies) I realized how young I was I probably have another 50 years to go Imagine, 50 years left What I can do in 50 years All of a sudden I felt like a spring chicken (or something like that). And that's if I make it to 100. What if I'm around until I'm 125??? I look forward to a lot of living and growing and being who I choose to be. I'm planning on being one of those little old ladies sitting on a hill top (in my pink, three story home) where people come from miles around to... ah... to hear me tell my stories. Trust me, I've got 'em. I'll just have to work on an entertaining delivery. Or remembering them. Whichever comes first.

So, from that perspective, my new friend, at 22... you are a babe more than me... with a whole lot of "being" and choosing. (If you are interested, when I buy that pink house on a hill, I'll send you the address.)

Anyway, thank you very much for your words. Looking forward to your thoughts.

Linda B.

----- Original Message -----

> From: Jennifer Romano

> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:12 PM

> Subject: Re: What's your story?

> Linda B.-

> Those are some very tough questions that you asked... I don't know that I can fully answer all of them because some of those answers will be different from addict to addict... I have to do something right now, but later I want to try to reply to your questions when I can give them my full attention. I'm sure you will get some very helpful, insightful answers to your questions from others here as well. I'm 22 now, starting using heroin at 17 and got clean and on methadone at 19... so 14 doesn't seem all that long ago- and your daughter is very lucky to be getting help at such a young age- I hope she can get this recovery thing now- for me, getting clean young is great, I am lucky enough to still have many opportunities to do the things I missed out on without feeling as though I am too far behind (not that people can't get their lives back at any age- of course they can, but I'm glad that I, by the grace of god, will not be going through the horrors of addiction for decades upon decades)... hopefully I will be able to share some of my thoughts and feelings that may help you understand addiction a bit better. But I hope you ask your daughter these questions when you get a chance to sit and speak with her- her answers and personal feelings will obviously be the best way for you to understand what she is going through (and I think she is lucky to have a mother who wants to be involved in and understand her addiction and recovery). But until then, and for the sake of getting a variety of opinions and thoughts, I will give your questions some thought and devote some time to trying to answer them later on. :)

> ~Jennifer

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:32:09 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Welcome Linda and thank you for sharing your struggle

> >>Since my story is still unfolding and I have yet to sit with my 14-year-old child since I put her in treatment just 2-weeks ago, I have so many questions and fears.

Sometimes I think FEAR is our middle name in situations like ours.

> >>What is addiction like? Is it always the number one thought each day you wake up? All day? Is it a physical craving? What is it that helps you step away from it? Can I even help my daugther assuming that she chooses to fight the elephant?

Most of the answers to the above questions have to be answered on an individual basis depending upon what stage of the disease a person is in, what their drug of choice is and how they take it. Addiction is a biopsychosocial disease meaning it effects one physically, psychologically and socially or environmentally.You may have the genes as a risk factor but if you are brought up in an environment where drugs (including alcohol) are not part of the scene, your odds are much better that you won't become addicted. In early stages of recovery most people say they do crave their drug both mentally and physically. But not all. Some say the the craving goes away immediately. Some say it never goes away. The drug effects the neurotransmiters in the brain. I don't think there is a simple answer as to what helps you step away from it. Some suggestions are a higher power, or at least something outside oneself. Some people say one addict helping another addict. Some say medication. Some say a good therapist. Some say surrender. Some say hitting bottom. The list goes on and on. Can you help your daughter? Of course It sounds like you already have.

> >> What elements of life's experiences come into play?

Having a family in recove ry helps. Being mindful that life itself is a challenge but there are tools to make it a gentler one.

> >>I missed seeing the program on tv about your family... will it be aired again do you think?

Well it looks as if the program is being used as a fill in when one is needed and I would assume it might make it on again. You can also order a tape or transcript. If you go to this site's home page, you'll see in the left hand column a link about the seeing and/or ordering the show.

Please keep posting

Deirdre

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From: Steve

Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:44:37 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I was intrigued by the Deirdre's statement, "You may have the genes as a risk factor but if you are brought up in an environment where drugs (including alcohol) are not part of the scene, your odds are much better that you won't become addicted." Obviuously, we're talking in generalities and general odds. What is strange, is that growing up my parents didn't drink, didn't smoke (they did but quit before my memory kicked in, apparently) and didn't do drugs... Personally, I feel that the odds have more to do with one's peer group than what behaviour was seen at home. When I started drinking, I didn't do it to emulate my role models, I did it because my friends did, and I wanted to fit in (that, and once I did, I found I REALLY liked it) And I always said I would 'never' smoke pot, but my friends started to, and they would talk about how great it was--well, I was MISSING OUT, I just HAD to try it... Even as I progressed, and started doing coke (among other things) I said I would never freebase/smoke crack... Now that's my Drug of Choice... Funny how that works... Anyhow, just my $.02...

And another question, that may be more appropriate posted elsewhere... How prevalent is Ketamine (special K) where everyone's from... That is something that I'm noticing taking an upward trend in terms of use here in the midwest...

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From: "Linda McDonald"

Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:17:53 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

Thank you for responding to my story. It is such a wonderful thing to know that someone else can listen and really understand what I am writing about. I want to answer your questions and am so open to so much of what you said. I just got word this morning that my best friend lost her battle with cancer and died this morning. I just talked to her last night. When this is over, I would very much like to tell you more. Linda

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From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:21:53 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Steve, I just want to clarify by what I meant by "environment." It doesn't necessarily mean family. As the title of this website and Thom's book says it's "The Elephant on main Street," not just the one in the living room. So of course peers have great influence upon adolescents.

Deirdre

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From: Steve

Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:32:23 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Deirdre... Yes, I see now... I misread the meaning in your first post. For some reason, I took environment to mean 'household environment.' My mistake, and thanks for the clarification. We are in agreement on this then... My point was simply that in MY case, my peers had WAY more influence than my parents/teachers/etc did, and that totally jives with what you expressed...

I can't believe I just said 'totally jives.' :sillygrin:

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From: "Kevin K"

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:26:38 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

The following text is an email discussion Thom and I have been engaged in since monday on the topic being powerless...

Kevin,

Sorry for having taken so long to reply to your note, which I greatly appreciate. I know that Carrick wants to respond, too, if she hasn't already.

When I stopped drinking and drugging (mostly pot, some cocaine) twenty years ago ? Oct. 31, 1984 to be precise ? I did not go to AA. I was one of those who was put off by the "God" thing, and I've never been one for meetings (one of the reasons why I've mostly freelanced for the past 15 years). BUT, wherever anyone has asked me how I stopped, I always tell them to do what I didn't do and go to AA. That includes Deirdre, who stopped 18 months after me. Even though I've only attended about a dozen meetings over the years, I still credit AA with a lot of my recovery because its principles are the backbone of the recovery movement, and its tenets have been seeping into my consciousness since my mother dragged me to an Alanon meeting when I was 10 or 11. Deirdre is still very active in AA, an d stays fresh by, for instance, starting a new meeting last year that's centered around Grapevine articles. We both encouraged Carrick to attend meeti ngs, but she did not feel at home at them. I'll let her tell her own story, but it is a complaint we've heard from quite a few younger people, and I'm sure you have, too. We raised the point last week at a conference of recovery professionals we attended in North Carolina. One of the problems, it seems, is that some younger people can't relate to the bottoming out that they hear about at meetings. Others feel that their ability to stop drinking or drugging represents a real power they have within themselves to beat addiction, and can't relate to the idea that they are "powerless." I'm sure there are other things going on, too, not the least of which is a generation gap.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas about this? If so, perhaps you could post them on the site rather than just send them to me. But either wa y, I'm interested.

Congratulations on your five years It 's a great accomplishment. If I were to lapse, I would not hesitate to go to AA today, and I truly believe that it works if you work it.

It's also great to see you on the discussion board, and I hope that you keep coming back.

-Thom

On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:20 PM, Kevin P. Klapac wrote:

Wow. Mind bender I am going to post something on this subject on your website but i first wanna get a better idea of what it is we are talking about (grammer sux). reason being this is a BIG BIG BIG BIG deal if i am understanding corectly.

Ill give you my take and experience since I was and still am a young person in recovery. I took me a long time to come to grips with the fact that i was a lowlife junkie. and the thing was i had to realize i was not a junkie just because i did herion. "junkie" is such a plastic work. what i mean is if i was an over eater and weighed 600 pounds and ait till i puked everyday i would be a junkie too. ( i am going somwhere with this, promise) So i am going to use myself because my story is very similar to Carricks. I come from a well to do family living in suburbia. 1 hour from philly and also one hour from manhatten. I was never abused my parents never drank or did drugs ( only thing different) but the fact of this is she was not subjected to the Harsh part of your addiction. I was given everything i needed played HS football went to Penn State. what i am trying to say is No matter if i came from A wonderfull fantasy "Joan Cleaver" home or from a freakin trailer p ark in south florida living with my grandmothers sister this thing does not discriminate. Junkie is a junkie is a junkie. The first step to recovery tells us we have to relinquish Power. Simple to the point right? Wrong. I was better than everyone else cuz i just had a problem with getting of dope cuz i would get sick. I did not believe it afected my whole life. A person once said in a meeting he was addicted to MORE. he just wanted more of everything. I was in service for NA for 3 years and the best thing i learned and I want to share this with you and I definatly want to hear feedback from ya on this one and anyone else is Anomittity.

This is a term that has soooo much meaning in recovery especially for a younger person like me. I got this term explained to me and i truely was the missing peice my puzzeled life. People imidiatly think it means that We have no last name and what you hear and see hear let it stay here. it does mean that and that is a comforting way for people to get over embarresment about being in the rooms and admiting the need help. After you get over that the true meaning is this. Anomittity is the one thing that levels the playing feild. What i mean is no matter what you do outside of NA doctor lawyer neonazi gay lesbian writter begger therapist or have a CAC certificate when you sit in this room for an hour you are an addict that is looking for one more day clean PERIOD. No one is any better or worse off than anyone else. That is the " the tie that binds us together".

The things i just said are in my belief are where NA and AA sort of get gray. so my experiences have been NA honors this tradition alot more clearly and to the point so it lets younger folks feel at home. sometimes AA folks get a little complacent and start to believe they are better than and well chase young people out if the dont conform or say what they want to hear. Im not saying Na does not do it to this is just what i have experienced. Anytime you guys come into central PA Harrisburg area let me know ill take ya to a meeting and show ya lol. we say this sometimes AA pets some "cut" in there recovery. in NA we keep it raw and real.

have a great day and feel free to post this on the board ( took me awhile to type it)

kevin

Kevin,

I think what you wrote about anonymity is exactly what Deirdre prizes ? the fact that everyone in the rooms is on the same level. And we respect the fact that I lot of people in 12-step programs still wish to remain anonymous because stigma is still an unfortunately reality. Fortunately we have jobs where our public stance is not going to get us fired, and we're not really concerned about what neighbors or strangers think.

Today I was talking to Deirdre's boss, with whom I'm writing a book, about the fact the some people don't like to admit that they are powerless and he put the concept in a fresh light for me. He said that its only when you admit that you are powerless if you take that first drink, or first snort, or first hit, that you gain power over the substance. I wasn't thinking of it that way. I don't know if that point is being made in the rooms ? probably is ? but I wanted to share what I learned today. I'm al ways learning.

Anyway, please feel free to copy and paste what you wrote to the site with a short explanation that you were responding to a question I asked in an email or, if you'd prefer, I'll use it as a blog entry.

-Thom

Thom,

This question is so freaking deep i had ideas and things I've heard hitting my while i was in the shower. I'm gonna tell you a few more things i remember with my current thought train. reason is depending on what angle or situation i put this in it can change. Funny thing since they asked me my first time in treatment what do I think i need to change so i can begin my recovery. I sat there stupid for a few seconds then when i said something he shouted at me "EVERYTHING" then he followed it with " keep it simple stupid" and the greatest idea to ever make it on paper " One Day At A Time" anyway back to powerless. Since I'm an addict and so are you and many other who think about this it has gone in and out of ears of probably some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth. Yes addicts are by far a s

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From: "Kevin K"

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:15:04 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

On Oct 14, 2005, at 3:52 AM, Kevin P. Klapac wrote:

Thom,

The other thing that caught my mind was Bottom. It keeping with the simple ideas Rock bottom = dead period. If i gotta reach that to be totally powerless I'm not willing. So i look at it like this I am powerless over a mind or mood altering chemicals , minus any thing prescribed by a doctor. I was my own doctor for a few years i sucked if he says take it I ask my sponsor look it up online and then if i need it i take it. I cannot control myself if i am on drugs. It powers me. Heroin tells me when to eat, sleep, and shower. If someone is not a heroin addict relate this to your drug of choice if ya can see it ask someone who was around you when you were getting high they'll tell ya. The other part is not so simple. We as addicts are not responsible for what we do when we got high.. we were powerless BUT we are responsible for cleaning up after ourselves once we are clean. And once we do get clean and reap some benefits like sanity we then need to express gratit ude for recovery and our Higher Power. High Powers are not powerless over me but i better be over him or else I'm getting high. people struggle with the god thing. I did too so i made my NA Basic Text my higher power. I removed god and said basic text. I am pretty sure the main reason we use god in our text is because in the 30's 40's and 50's when this stuff was being researched ALOT of folks went to church. Look at all this crap about the pledge. People tend to take stuff to literal and over think it way to much. I take it for what it is all worth. If we want to we could probably poke holes in everything anyone has ever written or any concept developed regarding this subject. I know 3 concepts that I was told i needed to stay clean. Honesty, open mindedness, and willingness. If i got these am pretty sure they can help me out with all of the other stuff. And i try to always ask my sel f what's the next right thing to do in a situation. Not saying i always do but progress not perfection...

anyway thats my latest babble on the subject I hope it helps bring another angle to this and I have been pretty much blasting every meeting i got to with first step talk and everyone in the room has there own way the got to grips with it and what they did to make it work.

Just so you dot thing I am a rude or total self-centered person i really honestly have no freakin clue how to get around on blogs or forums. I try but i can never find the same shit twice. So my fiancee is a programmer and swears she will teach me but for now I just poke around looking. Please by all means feel free to post this anywhere you wish. Maybe on thing that comes from my scattered head might save some one or help some one to not use tonight.

Thanks for letting me exercise my mind and try to give back some of the stuff that was given to me. By the way I can't take credit for any of these concepts I learned EVERYTHING by going to meetings and i kept coming back no matter what people or myself thought.

Kevin Klapac

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From: spurs01

Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 16:13:18 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Well, I don't know if this is the right thread or not, but I beg and appreciate your patience. :-)

I was so touched by the story of Carrick. I am now 46 years old, and I am addicted to alcohol. That?s the very first time I?ve ever said that to anyone, although I suspect many know it already. My mother knows, I?m sure. My sister knows. My brother, another story entirely.

I?m a successful legal secretary/paralegal who?s been at the same job for 20 years. I must hide it well, or they know and tolerate it. I don?t drink during the day, at work, unless there?s a ?celebration? such as a trial victory. Even lately, I go to those celebrations and have a coke or another non-alcoholic beverage, or simply nothing at all. But, I feel myself looking at the bottles on the table.

I tried what I used to consider recreational "drugs" in the past. It started with Pot and Hashish when I went to high school in Germany and a teenage trip to Holland. I also did some mescaline and other types of acidic drugs in the 70?s. Went to high school in Germany, and this was perfectly ?acceptable? behavior at the time (as long as your parents didn?t find out). I have never put a needle in my arm, so I guess I am lucky that I was smart enough to do that. Smart or lucky? I don?t know, but I am fortunate.

I grew up in a home where my father was an alcoholic, my mother a physically abused wife, and I mean horrible physical abuse. I was 5 years old. I remember it all. I?ve been through the counseling, etc., etc., etc. When I went into the Army, I worked at a mental health clinic. I still cannot get the images of my mother, naked, being thrown out into the snow by my father. Yet I forgave him (many years later). How I did it, I don?t know. I guess it was because my Mom did, so I felt obligated. They divorced when I was 10 years old or so, and my stepdad was a pretty great guy.

My drug use in the 70?s was moderate. Li ving in Germany, alcohol use seemed to be the ?acceptable norm.? I sa w babies with beer in their bottles, and I am not kidding you here. I got pregnant when I was 15. I ran away from home (I was high on something and I honestly don?t remember what). I called my boyfriend (a GI of a different color than me), and he came and took me to a hotel room. I got pregnant for the one and only time in my life. My parents took me to London for an abortion. I?ve never conceived again. It breaks my heart to know that the only life I could have created was destroyed by drugs. I used to blame my parents, now I just blame me.

I've been married three times. This one has lasted 18 years. He was in a rock band, I met him in a bar, went backstage and we did lines together. We were weekend cocaine users. Only on the weekends, never during the work-week. I guess that?s how we justified it.

At that time, we were living in a cute little apartment, and had this little round glass table, the top of which you could spin around. We?d spin and spin and spin... and do lines of Coke the entire time (along with our friends, who were definitely part of this story). All of a sudden, I saw my husband turn white as a ghost. I am not exaggerating. His coloring paled to the point that even I, in my ?high? state, recognized it. I ran to the bathroom, got cold, wet towels, and the friends and I somehow brought him back from what I believe was certain death.

We have never done cocaine since. He still smokes pot, but it?s to ease the pain of his arthritis, he says. I will say, in his defense, he probably spends less than $100 per year on pot.

Alcohol is another matter. My drug of choice and, for the most part, his. It?s legal, easy to get, and satisfying. And I don?t know how to stop. He won?t, why should I?

I?m drinking wine as I type this, and I truly believe that it?s going to kill me at a young age.

Not trying to be dramatic, but my 47th birthday is December 22. And I just c an?t stop drinking. I can?t stop

Forgive me for the length, or if this post is in an inappropriate thread. I just had to finally release years of pain.

There is more, but I just can?t do it now. Thank you for listening.

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From: "barbara smith"

Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 16:40:50 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Dont know if this is the appropriate place for this of not but I am 51 years old and have drank for many years and probably am an alcohlic, functional like yourself, sitting here right now with a beer in my hand but my problem is my daughter Melissa. Beautiful 27 year old girl with a large drinking problem. She has a 3 /2 year old son and ever since he was born and she has been with this guy, nothing but downhill since. She has been a problem child since the age of 12 and got into cocaine pretty heavily when she met the baby's father but now her choice of high is vodka, pure vodka, right out of the bottle. Could not go to a grocery store, my house, gas station et cetera without that pint in her purse and would use every rest room in the world to take the gulp of it. two weeks ago she ended up in the hospital, after being in there two weeks before with a 4.0 blood alcohol lever, this time it was panrcreatis, ; She was just about dead, every electrolytle and minreral in her body was so missed up. she is only 27. her dad died from cirrohsis at age 50. I myself have started going to Al-Anon meetings because this is destroying my health as well as hers. She has been sober a week since she got out of the hospital but know it wont last if she doesnt seek support. Maybe you could just try and find an AA meeting and try it a couple of times. They are good people that have been through what we are going through. I myself should probably go and I will but right now my goal is getting myself through what she is doing to herself and being able to be strong enough not to enable her. If at any time you want to talk, i will be here because i come from a very dysfunctional family also and believe that has a lot to do with what we are. Anyway, just a tiny piece of my life but really meant it when i said email me anytime and we can ta lk

God bless you

Barb

spurs01 wrote:

> Well, I don't know if this is the right thread or not, but I beg and appreciate your patience. :-)

> I was so touched by the story of Carrick. I am now 46 years old, and I am addicted to alcohol. That?s the very first time I?ve ever said that to anyone, although I suspect many know it already. My mother knows, I?m sure. My sister knows. My brother, another story entirely.

> I?m a successful legal secretary/paralegal who?s been at the same job for 20 years. I must hide it well, or they know and tolerate it. I don?t drink during the day, at work, unless there?s a ?celebration? such as a trial victory. Even lately, I go to those celebrations and have a coke or another non-alcoholic beverage, or simply nothing at all. But, I feel myself looking at the bottles on the table.

> I tried what I used to consider recreational "drugs" in the past. It started with Pot an d Hashish when I went to high school in Germany and a teenage trip to Holland. I also did some mescaline and other types of acidic drugs in the 70?s. Went to high school in Germany, and this was perfectly ?acceptable? behavior at the time (as long as your parents didn?t find out). I have never put a needle in my arm, so I guess I am lucky that I was smart enough to do that. Smart or lucky? I don?t know, but I am fortunate.

> I grew up in a home where my father was an alcoholic, my mother a physically abused wife, and I mean horrible physical abuse. I was 5 years old. I remember it all. I?ve been through the counseling, etc., etc., etc. When I went into the Army, I worked at a mental health clinic. I still cannot get the images of my mother, naked, being thrown out into the snow by my father. Yet I forgave him (many years later). How I did it, I don?t know. I guess it was because my Mom did, so I felt obligated. They divorced when I was 10 years old or so, and my stepdad was a p retty great guy.

> My drug use in the 70?s was moderate. Living in Germany, alcohol use seemed to be the ?acceptable norm.? I saw babies with beer in their bottles, and I am not kidding you here. I got pregnant when I was 15. I ran away from home (I was high on something and I honestly don?t remember what). I called my boyfriend (a GI of a different color than me), and he came and took me to a hotel room. I got pregnant for the one and only time in my life. My parents took me to London for an abortion. I?ve never conceived again. It breaks my heart to know that the only life I could have created was destroyed by drugs. I used to blame my parents, now I just blame me.

> I've been married three times. This one has lasted 18 years. He was in a rock band, I met him in a bar, went backstage and we did lines together. We were weekend cocaine users. Only on the weekends, never during the work-week. I guess that?s how we justified it.

> At that time, we were living in a cute little apartment, and had this little round glass table, the top of which you could spin around. We?d spin and spin and spin... and do lines of Coke the entire time (along with our friends, who were definitely part of this story). All of a sudden, I saw my husband turn white as a ghost. I am not exaggerating. His coloring paled to the point that even I, in my ?high? state, recognized it. I ran to the bathroom, got cold, wet towels, and the friends and I somehow brought him back from what I believe was certain death.

> We have never done cocaine since. He still smokes pot, but it?s to ease the pain of his arthritis, he says. I will say, in his defense, he probably spends less than $100 per year on pot.

> Alcohol is another matter. My drug of choice and, for the most part, his. It?s legal, easy to get, and satisfying. And I don?t know how to stop. He won?t, why should I?

> I?m drinking wine as I type this, and I truly believe that it?s going to kill me at a young age.

> Not trying to be dramatic, but my 47th birthday is December 22. And I just can?t stop drinking. I can?t stop

> Forgive me for the length, or if this post is in an inappropriate thread. I just had to finally release years of pain.

> There is more, but I just can?t do it now. Thank you for listening.

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From: "Lynne Parlier"

Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:14:46 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

My son has been an addict since he was 13 - he is now 35 & still battling addiction. During his teenage years, he went through 2 rehab programs, none of which worked. In fact, he used drugs while in a rehab facility. The other facility simply told us that nothing would change in his life until he hit rock bottom, which I'm not sure what that is, in his case

My husband & I during this time, used the "tough love" approach, as we had no choice - he was stealing from us, etc.... He has had numerous problems with the law & still battles all of this on a daily basis.

Thanks for listening,

Lynne

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From: Steve

Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:13:48 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Rock bottom is an interesting concept. for me, no matter how deep I dig, my hole's always wide enough to leverage another scoop with the spade, if you know what I mean... I have done things I NEVER thought I would do EVER... I can say this, whether it takes hitting bottom (And for some people, unfortunately, bottom is dead) or something else, it does entail one coming to terms with a desire to stop (whatever)...

And for the previous 2 posts, I encourage you both to go to AA meetings... Give it a shot... The MAJORITY of people who recover (I believe) go that route... It can't hurt. I was SO RESISTANT to the idea of going to meetings, until I finally realized that I was only afraid of ADMITTING and coming to terms with the fact that I AM AN ADDICT

I have relapsed NUMEROUS times in my recovery... I don't know where I would be without meetings, though... I can HONESTLY say I'd be WAY worse off had I not been going the past year..

Hope that helps

Steve

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From: "Carrick Forbes"

Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:22:40 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

In regards to "rock bottom"

it is a complicated and a deeply personal and individual experience.

I think the term "rock bottom" can be misleading.

The nature of the disease is such that as active addicts our values, ethics and basic sense is suspended.

despite the physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual abuse that the substance inflicts on us we go back for more like zombies; more often as the drug abused then the drug abuser.

We all have those days where we would do anything to stop the pain the loneliness and the fear that the substance brings with it, except stop the substance.

the moment I knew I was open to change in my heart, was a personal high for me, not a bottom. This time I did not call home and make a big announcement about my resurrection and rattle of a list of promises for the future.

This time I was not doing it for anyone else.

This time I was not mourning the drug and consequently crawling back on my knees, but determined to make my escape and stay strong. Determined that even if I got caught up again I would not wallow in self pity and instead just keep keeping at it until I got it.

FOR THOSE WITH ADDICTED CHILDREN

the recognition of addiction in oneself and the determination to get and be better is one of those life decisions that is so personal it comes straight from the roots, if it ever comes at all.

I feel for those of you with children under 18. I know that in my experience the more I was told drugs were bad the more I heard that drugs were cool.

there was nothing to keep me from going to where I was going but me. some other person(s) has written some really great things about S.A.F.E and there are some wonderful adolescent programs out there that teach life long, applicable lessons that can influence a person through out there lives. but to be perfectly frank-- most adolescent addicts are not going to get sober in their adolescence. they have no reason to when mommy and/or daddy or whoever is still obligated to take care of them, and even if that is not the case, the addiction certainly takes precedent over the lack of life experience.

I don't endorse sitting back and doing nothing and hope that everything works itself out. If there are signs that your child has a problem consider the appropriate actions and don't panic. Make sure that whatever course of action you and your child take, that both you and your child understands that they are not being punished.

With older children... I respect my parents decision to not let me run their lives any more shortly after I turned 18. Particularly when there is another child. It was then that I learned that my adult decisions had adult consequences. That is a vital lesson. Most of us know of some adult who has never been held accountable for their mistakes in there life time. People like that unfortunately often get spoiled into disfunction

My parents and I (usually my mother and brother more then my hurt father) talked on the phone off and on depending on how screwed up I was and both made clear that I always knew I could come to them when I was ready for help.

When I finally decided to get help I also made the choice to not go to them and to instead take the first step towards responsibility and accountability and I explored my options myself.

I suggest that anyone who is living with the destruction of addiction in whatever manifestation should seek out a local 12 step program for support. Not all find solace here, but it is an excellent place to meet people who have or are going through similar experiences and may be able to better guide you to where you need to go.

Unfortunately there is not one solution no one final option no absolute. so we all need to stay finally attuned to out emotional, physical and spiritual needs. thanks for all of your strength

carrick :grin:

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From: "Sharon O'Shea"

Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:55:50 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Wow, Carrick. Well said. And a reminder I need myself at the moment.

I was really struck by a couple of things that you and the two previous posters wrote (sorry, I can't see your names while I'm typing this).

I was a high-functioning alcoholic. Had it all together. Raised a child by myself, and he got great grades in school and was good to his mother. Put myself through college. Had an interesting and demanding job in a "glamor" profession. House was always clean and organized. Dressed well, looked good. Everything was great on the outside, and NO ONE, I mean NO ONE guessed that I had a secret.

I was a reward drinker. It was my signal that the day was over, and I had done my job, and goddammit if I want to have three glasses of wine or four or five, so what? I EARNED IT. I also believe I was self-medicating anxiety disorder. But no one caught on.

That is, until the night I went out with a few co-workers after work, and I got very , very drunk -- so drunk that I fell out of a taxi, and too drunk to get home on the train. So I spent the night with one of my coworkers, and called home to leave a message for my son on the answering machine, so he wouldn't worry when he woke up and I was not there.

The next day when I got home, I listened to that message, and my shame was overwhelming. That slurring, incoherent woman was not me. I still shudder as I write this -- it's a painful memory. I can't remember how long after this I actually quit and went to AA, but it was the bottom for me. I knew somehow, through the alcohol-induced fog, that I wanted to be entitled to dignity. I also knew that there was a lot of damage on the inside, and that I had to deal with that if I was ever going to have the life that I envisioned for myself.

Well, let me tell you, there's no such thing. (John Lennon wrote that life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.) Things did not turn out as I planned AT ALL. But I changed. I grew to know the meaning of joy, and I experienced the exhilaration of knowing that, whatever dumb, embarrassing and ridiculous things I did, it would never again be because I was drunk. That is the freedom I craved -- the freedom to be as crazy and goofy and eccentric as I like, without anyone in the room tut-tutting about how much I'd had to drink.

I am also among the fortunate few who are released from the craving for alcohol. I never really think about drinking. But that does NOT mean that I don't backslide. My relapses are emotional. They happen when I forget what I learned in early sobriety in AA meetings. And I know I can never forget, because my life is good and I am happy to the extent that I remember these things, and it is painful and unhappy to the extent that I forget them.

And that's enough for now.

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From: Jody

Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:52:31 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I don't know if I would call it rock bottom or not all I know is I woke up in a strange house on the floor with about 7 other people. There was a guy beside me who had vomited and was laying with his head in it. I remeber sitting there thinking that I didn't want to die. It really hit because till then all I had ever wanted was to be drunk or high or dead. Suddenly in that stinky little room I had this craving for life. It was a start of an up and down battle for sobriety. Since that day I have never given up hope. I stumble, I fall, but I always get back up. I have a home, someone who loves me and a good job. Ten years ago I couldn't have even imagined any of those things. Ten years ago I never thought I would make it to thirty.

I think for those of us who are addicts we must remeber to not let a fall cripple us it is not the end we must keep trying. For those of us who love us, keep loving us. My mom couldn't let me stay at her house but she never stopped loving me, and this thought has giving me strenght from time to time.

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:05:33 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hello everyone... I sent the paragraph below in a private email to someone, but I thought it might be appropriate to post here as well. I know this has to be a very tough day for many of you out there, as it is for me. Things should be different, but since my parents still consider me to be using, and won't even attempt to get to know or accept my boyfriend, we spend holidays apart- it really breaks my heart. Also, I apologize for neglecting this board for a while... my life has been completely turned upside down and into total chaos (emotionally, physically, and environmentally) over the past few weeks, which I want to share about here later. I'm typing it all in an email and will share part of that here. anyway....

Happy Thanksgiving How are things going today? How is your daughter doing? I imagine that holidays like this must be tough for a parent in your situation. As unhappy as I am with the way my parents act toward me now, I know that when I was usin g I made many holidays very miserable for them, which just breaks my heart. I remember that in 2002, not long before I got clean, I had been kicked out of my parents' house for the last time and was actually living in some run-down "recovery house" with my boyfriend, getting high... I spoke to my grandmother on Thanksgiving (she is the only person who has consistently been there for me through everything and has never waivered in her support of me in my recovery) and she told me that when my dad was saying grace he started sobbing... I couldn't even imagine that, and I was just filled with guilt. Unfortunately, the only way I knew how to deal with that was to do a bag of dope... but on a day like that, not even heroin could take away the sadness and guilt I felt, or stop me from missing my family. In fact, I didn't even try- I was so sad that day that my boyfriend and I slept through the whole day, dopesick, in a run-down house that just wasn't home. I was too depressed to even bother engaging in the money and drug chase that day. Even t hough I was the one that tore my family apart, being away from them on Thanksgiving was very hard for me as well. I imagine your daughter feels the same way... I don't know if that helps at all. I just know that my parents thought that while they were miserably spending their holiday without me that I was off somewhere getting high and just having a great time, not caring that I was hurting them or that I was away from them. That must be an infuriating thought. But that just wasn't the case... by that point, using wasn't fun, and it didn't take away the pain of missing my family. I spent the day unhappy as well, although I wouldn't let my parents know that because my addiction had deceived me into believing that I was where I wanted to be- admitting that I wanted to be at home would've have required acknowledging my denial to my parents. And I couldn't do that- in order to keep living the way I was, I needed to try to make them believe that I was happy with my lifestyl e. I hope that makes sense. It's been a while since you emailed me, so I hope things have improved with your daughter. But if not, even if she doesn't tell you, I know that she must really be missing you today... she knows she is hurting you, as I did with my parents, but the disease is keeping her where she is. I was hoping I could offer a comforting word on a holiday that must be difficult... but it's hard to- it's sad on both ends. I just want all of the parents of addicts out there to see a day like today from the perspective of the addict through my experience. I hope this came across clearly, I'm having a hard time explain what I am trying to say. While caught up in the chaos of addiction, holidays are heartbreaking for everyone... and my heart goes out to the addcts and any of their parents/loved ones who are spending today separated by physical distance or simply by addiction itself.

~Jennifer

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From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 14:01:11 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jennifer,

I have so many thoughts to share with you, I am trying to figure out the words. First, yes, your message came through very clear and I appreciate you sharing so very much. I am so conscious of the fact that my daughter and I are just beginning our journey on this difficult path. I have to admit, I hope that our path is not as painful as yours is with your family. Know this: I pray for your strength today, Jennifer; I ask for your prayers for us. I am a true believer and have experienced so much love, healing, and understanding on my (deepening) faith walk... it is how I have survived these past 10 years through divorce, a concussion, layoffs, and more. And, right now, God's grace has surrounded me in all areas of my life, it literally blows me away, and the program my daughter is in is helping me, too.

Thanksgiving WAS tough... S.A.F.E. had all the parents gather for a pot luck dinner with their children, however, clients still on phase 1 of the program (which is where my daughter was) couldn't speak to nor sit with their families. The minute I saw her I knew something wasn't quite right with her. After we had dinner, staff began a short family "rap". My daughter was one of the clients asked to share. She began telling me how thankful she is of me... for providing support both before and now. Staff prodded her to share her feelings over the past few days. Well... her feeling words... she was feeling low, sad, down, hurt, and upset about not having Thanksgiving with her grandparents because she's been homesick, is worried about their health.... Some of the clients in the program jumped in to say they related, but they also asked if my daughter was being completely honest. They pushed back saying things like, "Last year I was with my family but I chose drugs instead so I was high and really wasn't "with" my family. It was quite an emotional experience for me to be a part of.

As it happened, the next day my daughter earned second phase and we have been allowed to talk to one another... I'm like a reward... S.A.F.E. still works her in the program everyday all day, and my role right now is getting back in touch with her, having a positive relationship with her, and enjoying her.

We have already touched lightly about the future. I shared that I had done a Moral Inventory (AA 12 steps) about my fears. She surprised me. Her answer was, "Mom, it's ok to feel fear. We have time... I'm glad to hear you working your program."

I'm glad that I am being given a communication tool (12 steps) to bridge one of the gaps she and I have right now. As I understand it, S.A.F.E. will also be providing me with other tools to help me stay strong if the future "turns south" for us. I have no delusions. This is not a cake walk.

Every person in sobriety has my admiration. You are the ones that give me hope. I applaud you for your choices. May my daughter make that "inner decision" and choose sobriety that many on this web site refer to.

Jennifer, feel good about your successes. You mention craziness these last few weeks. I don't know you other than these few emails, however, I want you to know that you count. You have spoken to my heart twice now. And, I'm SURE I'm not the only one in your life who appreciates you. Whatever it is, don't give up. Appreciate yourself.

Well, it has taken me all week to write this and I have to run again... it's Friday night and I have an hour and a half drive to get to the program where my daughter is. We have meetings until 11:00.

Please stay in touch.

Linda B.

----- Original Message -----

> From: Jennifer Romano

> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:05 PM

> Subject: Re: What's your story?

> Hello everyone... I sent the paragraph below in a private email to someone, but I thought it might be appropriate to post here as well. I know this has to be a very tough day for many of you out there, as it is for me. Things should be different, but since my parents still consider me to be using, and won't even attempt to get to know or accept my boyfriend, we spend holidays apart- it really breaks my heart. Also, I apologize for neglecting this board for a while... my life has been completely turned upside down and into total chaos (emotionally, physically, and environmentally) over the past few weeks, which I want to share about here later. I'm typing it all in an email and will share part of that here. anyway....

> Happy Thanksgiving How are things going today? How is your daughter doing? I imagine that holidays like this must be tough for a parent in your situation. As unhappy as I am with the way my parents act toward me now, I know that when I was using I made many holidays very miserable for them, which just breaks my heart. I remember that in 2002, not long before I got clean, I had been kicked out of my parents' house for the last time and was actually living in some run-down "recovery house" with my boyfriend, getting high... I spoke to my grandmother on Thanksgiving (she is the only person who has consistently been there for me through everything and has never waivered in her support of me in my recovery) and she told me that when my dad was saying grace he started sobbing... I couldn't even imagine that, and I was just filled with guilt. Unfortunately, the only way I knew how to deal with that was to do a bag of dope... but on a day like that, not even heroin could take away the sadness and guilt I felt, or stop me from missing my family. In fact, I didn't even try- I was so sad that day that my boyfriend and I slept through the whole day, dopesick, in a run-down house that just wasn't home. I was too depressed to even bother engaging in the money and drug chase that day. Even though I was the one that tore my family apart, being away from them on Thanksgiving was very hard for me as well. I imagine your daughter feels the same way... I don't know if that helps at all. I just know that my parents thought that while they were miserably spending their holiday without me that I was off somewhere getting high and just having a great time, not caring that I was hurting them or that I was away from them. That must be an infuriating thought. But that just wasn't the case... by that point, using wasn't fun, and it didn't take away the pain of missing my family. I spent the day unhappy as well, although I wouldn't let my parents know that because my addiction had deceived me into believing that I was where I wanted to be- admitting that I wanted to be at home would've have required acknowledging my denial to my parents. And I couldn't do that- in order to keep living the way I was, I needed to try to make them believe that I was happy with my lifestyle. I hope that makes sense. It's been a while since you emailed me, so I hope things have improved with your daughter. But if not, even if she doesn't tell you, I know that she must really be missing you today... she knows she is hurting you, as I did with my parents, but the disease is keeping her where she is. I was hoping I could offer a comforting word on a holiday that must be difficult... but it's hard to- it's sad on both ends. I just want all of the parents of addicts out there to see a day like today from the perspective of the addict through my experience. I hope this came across clearly, I'm having a hard time explain what I am trying to say. While caught up in the chaos of addiction, holidays are heartbreaking for everyone... and my heart goes out to the addcts and any of their parents/loved ones who are spending today separated by physical distance or simply by addiction itself.

> ~Jennifer

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From: polly1283

Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 08:22:36 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

You continue to be a help and inspiration to so many of us. Your note to Linda Becker was thoughtful and helpful..I continue to read this site every day, but have not had a lot of time lately to write. My Ben is in a safe place now and doing well on suboxone. He is seeking spirituality in the form of a Buddhist temple and that is just fine for me. Reminds me of James Frey and his little Tao book. Ben is making plans, has enrolled in college for the January semester and has a part-time job. For his dad and me this is a reprieve for awhile and, again, a hopeful time. I just wanted to touch base with you and tell you that you are making a difference and growing so much within yourself. You should be very proud of yourself and who you are becoming.

Polly

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:20:44 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: What's your story?

Linda and Polly-

Thank you both so much for kind words and positive feedback. Polly, I'm so

glad to hear that Ben is doing well... I wish him all of the success in the

world. Starting school in January is probably going to be good for him- I

know for me, even though I feel like I'm behind because I should have

graduated by now, being in school was a big self-esteem boost (hopefully

I'll be back next fall- it doesn't look like it's going to happen for

spring, my back still hasn't improved enough, or very much at all).... it

helped me feel like I was back in the "normal" world after spending so much

time around other addicts and talking/thinking about/dealing with addiction

and recovery. Plus, it fills up time, which seems to be a good thing for

most addicts... idle hands/minds and all that, you know?

Polly, it sounds like you are very cautious about being too optimistic about

Ben's sobriety... which I can certainly understand... I'm not a parent, but,

even being an addict myself, I have experienced being disappointed again and

again by my boyfriend relapsing or just going back to old behaviors. Was I

misreading what you said (or what you didn't say)?

Linda, I wanted to say the same to you... that I am very happy to hear that

your daughter is doing well and making progress in her program. I wish you

both all the best. :) Keep us updated on how things are going. I'm

interested in hearing about your experiences in the SAFE program... it

sounds like a very unique program. I think it's great that it focuses on

the whole family recovering... that's so important not to have your child

come home to a "sick" (for lack of a better word) environment. Does that

make sense? I give you a lot of credit for all of the time and effort you

put into helping yourself to, in turn, help your daughter.

Well, speaking of parents, I know this may sound surprising, but I am

sitting here typing this at my parents' house. My grandmother is having

surgery this week, so I took the train over to NJ to spend the weekend with

her since I won't get to see her for a while. Anyway, last night my parents

asked me to come over here for dinner and to spend the night. It's actually

been really nice... no arguments. It's kind of hard to be back here because

it just puts all of this confusion and sadness in my head about the concept

of "home". I was looking at my mom's Christmas decorations, and she only

has three stockings hanging on the mantel.... hers, my dad's, and my

brother's. We always had four, with each of our names on them. It just

makes me feel like they don't consider me part of their family anymore.... I

know that's not the case. I mentioned it and my mom said it just makes her

sad have all four- she said she only put three to remind herself and to try

to get used to the fact that her family unit is now just the three of them.

I don't know...

My Dad and I did have a good talk last night... I woke up around 4:30am and

he was up because he's sick so he can't sleep. We talked for a while... and

we were avoiding the methadone issue, but when it came up I asked him if he

thinks that methadone alone (or any medication) could have kept me clean for

three years. I asked that because he doesn't consider me to be in recovery

or to have done any work on myself. But I think that question made sense to

him... and in a rare moment of clarity (when his mind wasn't filled with

rage, I mean) he told me that he knows some people can do well on methadone,

but that he thinks he hates it and attacks it because he associates heroin,

methadone, and my boyfriend with the loss of his daughter. It was good to

hear that maybe deep down he knows that I am doing well... but because I'm

not here, he feels as though he has lost me and he associates heroin, john,

and methadone with that loss. However, he couldn't stay nice forever... he

just walked into the kitchen and had to make a nasty comment. He asked what

I was doing and I told him I was responding to some posts and he said "I

don't even want to hear about it because it's so stupid and makes no sense

to me." When I asked what he meant, he said that "you shouldn't be trying

to give advice to people about something you're not doing yourself" (meaning

recovery)... and that I'm just deceiving all of you into believing I'm doing

well. Argh Temporary improvement, and then back to normal.... but I must

end this now. He wants me to go watch "Pulp Fiction" with him. He's a big

movie buff, so his favorite thing is to have other people watch the movies

he loves with him... that's quality time to him. :) Anyway, I'm enjoying

spending time with my family though... it's been a while.

~Jennifer

------------------------------------------------------

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 14:34:06 -0800

To: "Sharon O'Shea"

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Dear Jennifer,

I've avoided writing this letter for months now. For some reason I've felt

out of place commenting on your parents attitudes toward addiction, recovery

and in particular, their rejection of such an incredibly wonderful daughter.

But after reading your latest entry I just can't help it.

I admit, I can not fathom how on the one hand they claim to be sober and AA

knowledgeable and on the other they behave like dry drunks.

AA taught me life wasn't all black and white but a vigorous shade of grey.

It taught me to be open minded as there was so much to life I had no idea

about. It taught me that conflict ends where communication begins. It taught

me one day at a time anything was possible. It taught me about making

amends. It taught me not to make snap judgements. It taught me to explore

all possibilites and doing footwork before making any final decisions. And

it taught me to pray for the ignorant--not for their sake, but to give ME

peace.

Even with all that said I must admit I feel incredible anger toward your

parents--to their closed mindedness, ignorance, irrational belief system

based on myth, not even based on what they see before them. They don't have

to like your boyfriend, your heroin use or even your methadone use --I'm

sure you're not thrilled with having to use methadone to stay well either,

but they should accept the fact that they don't have all the answers.

I'm also amazed at your still quiet acceptance of them in at least

attempting to understand them. You are so much further along in your

sobriety than they are, it's amazing. You are what recovery is all about,

not them

Acceptance is the Key, all of us in 12 step programs have been taught. We

are directed to seek the guidance of a higher power--for me a higher power

is everything except me alone. They seem to only seek their own guidance or

at best seek the guidance of those who will think as they do.

They ought to educate themselves regarding this disease--if they believe it

to be a disease. Their ideas are truly dangerous to other's

sobriety--especially yours

It sounds as if they enjoy punishing you for choosing a different path even

if it too leads to recovery. 3 stockings on the mantel, and answering how

"sad" SHE is because it reminds her that her family unit is 3 instead of

4?? And who's fault is that

You asked your Dad a good question. Maybe another would be what HE considers

recovery to be.

>>>he told me that he knows some people can do well on methadone,

> but that he thinks he hates it and attacks it because he associates heroin,

> methadone, and my boyfriend with the loss of his daughter

I believe he's projecting he's own feelings about his inadequacy being

unable to keep his safe. He's really blaming himself and that's too

difficult too look at, so the next best thing is to blame everyone/thing

else. I'm not saying it IS his fault, I'm just saying underneath it all he

believes it is and he doesn't know how to come to terms with that--it's way

too painful.

This situation isn't healthy for any of you. It's especially dangerous for

people who, generally speaking, have used substances to deal with such

painful feelings in the past. How easy to pick up over it again.

Now that I've reached the end of my letter I'm not so angry anymore, I'm

just terribly saddened that AA, which did so much for me, could be so

harmful too.

Bill W. took prescribed opiates for years after getting sober. Would your

father say those years don't count in his sobriety?

I am awed by your patience and perseverance, Jennifer. I wish life was being

more gentle with you--but as we all know life, unfortunately,, is not fair.

Hang in there Jen, many of us here, love and respect you.

Love

Deirdre

folder=.3c5416d2> to cancel your email subscription.

From: KFld

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 08:12:43 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I'm new to this board and since I'm at work right now, only have a minute to introduce myself and tell you a little about my story. I have an 18 year old son who is a heroin addict. He just completed a 45 day inpatient rehab and moved into a soberhouse around an hour away from us. He seems to be doing well, though he's been there less then a week. He will start his new full time job tomorrow and he seems excited about it. He has an appointment in a few weeks to speak to someone about going onto suboxone treatment because he really fears relapse and seems to want to stay clean this time. This was his 5th treatment facility, between inpatient and detoxes, in 6 months. Every other one, he walked out the door with plans to use and did within the first few hours I believe. This time seems different. Maybe because we have stopped enabling and only offer support and encouragement now, and he knew he couldn't come home. I read a few posts before writing this and it sounds like there is a lot of hope on this board from those of you who have experienced addiction yourself. I have gone to a few others board where it's either just the parents posting, or another I have was a pain and addiction support group, but these people have become addicted more from pain treatment then just voluntary drug use that turned into addiction. I look forward to spending some time here and learning from all of you.

Karen

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From: "barbara smith"

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:25:33 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I'm am recently new here also and this is my first site like this. But just reading these stories and having people give you encouragement and support has helped my a lot. Hope you and your son do well in his recovery. good luck Barb

KFld wrote:

> I'm new to this board and since I'm at work right now, only have a minute to introduce myself and tell you a little about my story. I have an 18 year old son who is a heroin addict. He just completed a 45 day inpatient rehab and moved into a soberhouse around an hour away from us. He seems to be doing well, though he's been there less then a week. He will start his new full time job tomorrow and he seems excited about it. He has an appointment in a few weeks to speak to someone about going onto suboxone treatment because he really f ears relapse and seems to want to stay clean this time. This was his 5th treatment facility, between inpatient and detoxes, in 6 months. Every other one, he walked out the door with plans to use and did within the first few hours I believe. This time seems different. Maybe because we have stopped enabling and only offer support and encouragement now, and he knew he couldn't come home. I read a few posts before writing this and it sounds like there is a lot of hope on this board from those of you who have experienced addiction yourself. I have gone to a few others board where it's either just the parents posting, or another I have was a pain and addiction support group, but these people have become addicted more from pain treatment then just voluntary drug use that turned into addiction. I look forward to spending some time here and learning from all of you.

> Karen

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From: Kittie0274

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:11:00 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi. I am new here. Recently watched Carrick's Story on dateline (sunday night to be exact) and felt that I should to tell my cousins story. He had an addiction to heroin and had used other drugs since he was a teenager. He's now 27. In his early 20's he became a father, and had quit using for a few years only to start using again, this time the mother of his children was using with him. They stole money from family and were arrested. Both of them went to jail, and their children were then living with his mother. After being released the mother of his children became pregnant again...they both got out and were then sebt back to jail to finish serving all of their time for the crimes. In the spring of this year he was released from prison and finally got to meet that baby, now a two year old. He lived with our grandmother and got a job, saw his kids (but not on a regular basis) and he was really trying to get his life back together. He was suffering from depression a nd of course struggling with his addictions.It is sometimes hard to read into a persons signs that they are depressed. He didn't attend any meetings or receive methodone (which he really should have done). He was socializing with friends and drinking some. But would always come back home. There were not too many days that he would take off from work, for he was for the most part dependable and he was paying his child support. In September (2005) our grandmother was having health problems and he helped to do things for her and was there for her. After she was feeling better he took a turn for the worse. Around October 4th (tuesday)he went out for a walk and called grandmother and told her that he was with a friend and that he wouldn't be home that night...he wasn't heard from until Sunday and that was by form of a telephone call from a Hospital in Philadelphia, Pa from a Doctor there that had treated him and a psyche doctor. He was treated for being sick from the withdra wls due to using heroin so I am told? He wanted to come home. So gra ndmother wired him money for a bus ticket and met him at the bus terminal that evening. On the 11th he was gone again. Where to? This time he was back again on the 16th but showed up at his father's doorstep and asked to be admitted into the hospital psyche ward. He was and was put on Depression meds. We had our pastor talk with him and we were all very hopeful for him to get better. During this whole time since he was out of prison my teenaged daughter spent alot of time talking with him as well as my grandmother. He made comments about going into the city and comments about "finding peace" once and for all. And that he was hearing voices. He had alot on his mind and had been in and out of rehabs and on depression meds as a teen but would never stay in rehabs or stay on the meds. As we all know you can't force someone into getting better they have to want it themselves. Not sure what he really wanted. Seems as though at times (he did come back) he was asking for he lp. In my opinion.

On October 19th he was picked up at the hospital by our grandmother and brought back home to her house. This would be the last time we saw him. I spoke with him that day as I dropped my 4 year old daughter off to be watched by grandma while I had an ultrasound. I hugged and kissed him and said "I hope you can get better and stop leaving or I'm gonna kill ya"...(the last part of that was a joke)...and he said to me "not if I do it myself". He left in the middle of the night that night. Grandmother went upstairs the next morning only to find a bag packed with some clothes, and found a suicide note. We had already alerted the state police the first time he had left because of him being depressed so this time they were alerted again because of the suicide note. A week later he robbed a bank, wrecked his getaway car and was found walking in the middle of a highway and was picked up by state police and taken to a hospital. By the time the hospital called grandmother the next morning he was gone. And those state police knew nothing of the bank robbery. On October 28th he called my grandmother (along with is mom and his dad they weren't home though), he said he loved her and she asked him where he was and he told her. That was the last time she heard from him. He went into a hospital that day, was released on October 31st. November 1st he commit suicide by jumping off a bridge. His phone calls a few days prior were to say goodbye, for we know that now. You tend to feel like such an idiot for not doing more for him, but what could you do to a grown man? This is what he wanted to finally have peace from his mind from the drugs. Since he was released in the spring we all (family) had spent some time with him, time that we hadn't been able to spend with him in years. I am glad for spending that time with him. My daughter shared with me something that she had promised him and that a promise to never use drugs, and she plans on keeping th at promise to him. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

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From: KFld

Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 05:38:26 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Wow. What a story. All of you need to realize there is nothing more you could have done for him. They make these choices with their lives and you just have to hope that they can get away from that way of life before their stories end the way his did. I'm glad you were able to spend time with him that you can cherish. That is what you were able to do for him and for all of you.

I don't know what else to say at this point. Just wanted to let you know that my heart goes out to you and your family.

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From: Kittie0274

Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:16:02 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thanks. Every day is a struggle for our famliy. I think of him every day, alot throughout the day. Every time I see my grandmother she brings him up in one way or another and it hurts me to see her eyes fill up with tears. I am not a religious person but I do feel that things in life happen for a reason, whether there is a god above that has something to do with the way things carry out in your life or whatever I believe that things happen for certain reasons like from my own experience with my teenage pregnancy I realized that if I wouldn't have continued my pregnancy that my parents would have never knew their granddaughter for they died shortly after she was born (mother of cancer when my daughter was 4 mths old and my father died 7 months later of him drinking and driving, accident). And I am glad that they were there for me. They would have never met her. Through all the years of my cousins addiction we were not aware of everything that was going on in his life for his mother and father were dealing with the brunt of it all, and my grandmother was caring for me , my younger sister and helping me with my daughter. So during these past few months, my feeling is that his living with our grandmother was a blessing for us all to get close to him and to learn and somewhat try and make sense and understand his mental pain, and I somewhat do. But disagree with suicide as a way out, but this is what he wanted and he was very brave. I could and can not imagine standing looking down off of that 100 Plus foot high bridge and then ultimately taking that next step knowing that this is it. He now has found peace.

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From: KFld

Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:46:20 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I also believe everything in life happens for a reason. I truley believe god some some big plan for my sons life, because to me, there has to be a reason he has taken his life in the direction it is right now. I think that actually helps me deal with all of this, believing that there must be a reason for it all.

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From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:50:38 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

It's amazing how one life really does impact a whole lot of people. We never know who's looking as we muddle through, do we. My uncle died of lung cancer when I was about 11 years old. I never picked up a cigarette. My guess is, you daughter will hold to her promise.

I'm glad you shared your burden here. It seems to me, this site has a lot to offer, including healing of all sorts.

You have my love and my prayers. Give your grandmother a hug from us.

Linda

From: "Julie Spinn-Petocz"

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:41:30 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Dawn,

You make some very good points. Family is always angry with a relapse because they don't understand and they are scared. Anger is an expression of that fear. There is no logic in an addict's relapse, so don't look for it. It is especially confusing in an addict who is truly trying to recover, but I agree no one can 'fix' him. We can't be 'fixed' or 'cured', we can only work on our recovery. That process never ends. I think about a drink every day, but I have to play the tape through to the end where I disappoint and hurt other people, not just myself.

Julie

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From: "Michelle B."

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 07:03:01 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

We were talking on another thread about love, that got me to thinking...Being raised in an extremely loveless/abuse environment, shooting up for me was the closest to heaven/love I had ever known. (no need to discuss what chemicals directly to the heart does...) All the ugliness of the world fell away, there was only this sense of profound warmth and it was coming from inside me. I was a very young teenager when I first shot up. This warmth was something I had missed by conventional means. As a child, giving hope, warmth, encouragement and love to my siblings, late at night I would wonder where the hell those words came from. I often thought I had a deep well of love & strength that God himself must be refilling daily. But quite honestly, by 10 or 11, I was exhausted. The words I continued to speak were empty. Then came the drugs, knowing the physical dangers, it didn't matter to me because it was love, it was warmth, it was the fiirst peace/comfort I had ever k nown. I'm not sure why I am writing this. It very hard to remember that broken little girl.

Fast forward

When I found love as an adult woman, that intense love was just like the drug. It was heaven and it came from inside me. I honestly did not know that love could come from another human being like that. I was shocked. For many reasons, I could not hold on to that love, part of me knows I intentionally pushed him away, the past has a way of creeping in when you least expect it. The doubts of abandonment, doubts about my worth etc etc etc.

For years I told my self when it was my time to go, I would do so by way of overdose. To feel one last time that internal blissful warmth in my heart that seems to elude me in this life. It's not to say I haven't experience love working with the children/adults I have. But it has broken my heart to know the pain they speak of so intimately. Parenting doesn't come with manual but I've often wondered if there isn't a book somewhere on How to Be Cruel Without Even Trying , because some have it down to a T.

I need a cigarette.........M

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From: "Mona Thompson"

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:25:08 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I come from a small town in Northeastern Nevada, gold country, for those of you familiar with the area. I grew up in the 70's and 80's, graduating high school in 84. I started using drugs and alcohol at sixteen to try to combat the boredom and a severe case of "less than". I knew immediately that there was a problem...none of the other people at the party threw up and passed out, the other people at the party knew when to stop. I continued to drink and use drugs for many, many years, trying to find the right combination of anything that would take away the pain, but allow me to remember the previous night or day. Imagine my disbelief the first time I tried meth, and I could remember everything for days on end My meth addiction lasted nine years. Nine years of emotinal, verbal and physical abuse from my ex husband. Nine years of trying to use as much meth as I possibly could, hoping that I would finally have a heart attack and die. Nine years of becoming everything that I hated, a junkie, and thief, a liar and a cheat. Nine years of wondering how on earth I was ever going to save myself and my children from the nastiness of life. In 1999 I was arrested for trafficking in meth. If anyone knows about the drug laws in Nevada, I was screwed. 25 years to life, up there with the murderer and the child rapists. By the grace of God, I finally "got it." I went to treatment, I went to 90 meetings in 90 days, and then another 90 in 90. I got a sponsor, I worked the steps of AA. I managed to put together a year of recovery before being sentenced to 18 months in prison. Wow....life on life's terms, what a concept. I got thru prison, and came home without the monkey on my back. I got thru parole without even considering dirty UA's. Six years after my arrest, I'm still trudging my road to happy destiny. I have children that love and trust me. I have parents that love and trust me. I have a self that loves and trusts. To all those ou t there suffering from addiction, there is hope. To all those familie s out there struggling with addicts in their lives, there is hope. And to all those meth addicts, if I can do it, so can you. Find a meeting, find a sponsor, and find your Higher Power. Thanks for listening. Mona

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From: "barbara smith"

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:29:35 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mona, that is a sad story but as you keep reading, all the ones on here are. Congratulations to you for being drug and alcohol free for so long now. I am just looking at it from a mother of a 27 year old daughter that has been addicted to one thing or the other since she was 12. Recently it has been lotab and straight vodka. Since October she has been in the hospital and detox five times total. Would get out of detox and for a day would be alright and then thought well I can have a beer since that is not my drug of choice and I will be alright. Well she is not alright. Always fought with the idea of AA. She has a 3 1/2 year old son and last time she was in danger of losing him to the state, she put herself in detox and was there for 8 days then she agreed to go to this woman and children rehab they have here in Florida where your children can stay with you and it is a level system. To make a long story sh ort, one day of being in there, she called and told me she was leaving and I told the counsellor to have her put in protective custody which they could do because it was the weekend and had no higher ups available. So they did and come Monday morning, they decided and called me and asked my opinion on making it court ordered and I said I truly believe she needs to be. So she is court ordered for 45 days and then it will go up for appeal and hopefully they will do it again because she hasnt even started on that road to recovery. When she does get in touch, which isnt very often, as on the level she is on now, has no privileges. So she can call when a counsellor is present. When she does she is mean and selfish, vindicative and whining and complaining about "you dont know how hard it is" yada yada. She has been in the rehab now for 12 days I think and detox for 8 so she has been sober about 20 days now. For the past 2 weeks all I have done is run back and forth there dropping this off to her and giving her money for her nicotine gum and for what. Not one little iota of thankfulness. Mailed her a letter today telling her to get her list together because I was only making one more trip out there. Now the anger is setting in on me. I am so pissed off at her riight now. Everything people have done for her trying to keep that baby with here, running clothes, medications money whatever to her and she is not the least bit gratefful for anything. Anyway, I could go on and on forever but right now I am not feeling very hopeful about her. Maybe it is all part of the process but I dont understand it. I am very happy for you and you will be in my prayers. By the way, do you still go to AA?

Keep in touch Barb Smith

Mona Thompson wrote:

> I come from a small town in Northeastern Nevada, gold country, for those of you familiar with the area. I grew up in the 70's and 80's, graduating high school in 84. I started using drugs and alcohol at sixteen to try to combat the boredom and a severe case of "less than". I knew immediately that there was a problem...none of the other people at the party threw up and passed out, the other people at the party knew when to stop. I continued to drink and use drugs for many, many years, trying to find the right combination of anything that would take away the pain, but allow me to remember the previous night or day. Imagine my disbelief the first time I tried meth, and I could remember everything for days on end My meth addiction lasted nine years. Nine years of emotinal, verbal and physical abuse from my ex husband. Nine years of trying to use as much meth as I possibly could, hoping that I would fi nally have a heart attack and die. Nine years of becoming everything that I hated, a junkie, and thief, a liar and a cheat. Nine years of wondering how on earth I was ever going to save myself and my children from the nastiness of life. In 1999 I was arrested for trafficking in meth. If anyone knows about the drug laws in Nevada, I was screwed. 25 years to life, up there with the murderer and the child rapists. By the grace of God, I finally "got it." I went to treatment, I went to 90 meetings in 90 days, and then another 90 in 90. I got a sponsor, I worked the steps of AA. I managed to put together a year of recovery before being sentenced to 18 months in prison. Wow....life on life's terms, what a concept. I got thru prison, and came home without the monkey on my back. I got thru parole without even considering dirty UA's. Six years after my arrest, I'm still trudging my road to happy destiny. I have children that love and trust me. I have parents that love and trust me. I have a self that loves and trusts. To all those out there suffering from addiction, there is hope. To all those families out there struggling with addicts in their lives, there is hope. And to all those meth addicts, if I can do it, so can you. Find a meeting, find a sponsor, and find your Higher Power. Thanks for listening. Mona

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:00:34 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hello everyone...

I hope you are all doing well. :) I wasn't sure if I wanted to post about this or not... because in a way I feel like it is being self-involved and in another way I feel like a fraud. Plus, I'm afraid of jinxing myself in some way by mentioning this. But, I decided to post this with the hope that it will give others on here some hope, to show what is possible for themselves or their loved ones, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

ANYWAY- Well, as of this weekend, it has been three years since I got on methadone, said goodbye to heroin, and stopped using. I don't want to say that I've been "clean" for three years, since so many people believe otherwise since I'm on methadone, psych meds, and medication for my back injury. So I won't use that term. Three years ago, I don't think I EVER would have believed it possible to stay away from heroin for three years... three days seemed like an impossible task at the time, nevermi nd years. But day by day time passed... and I just didn't use... and I started to make changes to myself and my lifestyle. Getting clean hasn't been some miracle cure for all of the problems and struggles in my life... but it has changed how I deal with those negative things. My boyfriend and I are still poor and have to scrape together money everyday just to live... my parents are still crazy and making me crazy everytime I talk to them... I still have some serious psychological issues to deal with, not to mention the things that have cropped up since I got clean, like my back injury that has forced me to put school or work on hold for much longer than I would prefer. But, most days, I am so happy to not be getting high. If I hadn't, I probably never would have met the Forbes and the rest of you wonderful, supportive people here. :) I certainly wouldn't trade the positive things in my life for a fleeting high. The past three years have been tough and wonderful at t he same time... I guess that's just how life is... and I hope to have many more years like the past few.

I'd never want to go back. As much as methadone is frustrating sometimes because you are so tied to a clinic, it helped me learn some sense of responsibility and routine that I didn't have before. Having to get up and go somewhere everyday was good for me. Before I got clean, I NEVER would have thought I could do something, anything, everyday on a certain schedule. I wouldn't want to do that everyday of the week again, but now I appreciate the days I have to myself in a whole new way.

Three years ago over the MLK holiday weekend, I was not doing well. I had been on methadone for only a few days and had to serve a weekend in jail. Luckily, they let me bring three take-homes doses, but jail still isn't pleasant (thank god that was the last time- although not the first or the longest- I was there, and hopefully it will be the last time EVER). So right about now I was just being released and picked up by my Dad, who I hadn't seen in months... and I went home to stay with my grandmother, as I had been living on the street, and needed somewhere to go while my boyfriend got himself together and until we got our own place. I think going back to NJ to stay with my grandmother is the reason I didn't keep using while on the methadone and start hanging out and buying pills at the clinic. I wanted so badly not to disappoint my family, so I didn't do any of those things. My reasons for staying clean changed over time, of course, but I am grateful that I had that reason to STOP in the first place. Plus, I was so grateful to not be still sleeping in an abandoned car, in the frigid January cold, with no food or even change of clothes, constantly dopesick. Being in that bad place made me so grateful to be on methadone and to have a place to live and food and clothes. And a relationsip with my boyfriend that wasn't influenced by drugs... the past three years have been full of ups and downs with him, but it has been GREAT to get to know each other for who we REALLY are, not the people we are while using. He is the absolute best thing in my life, I love him with all of my heart... and next weekend will be our FIVE YEAR anniversary together. I guess January is a good month for us. The weekend after that, we are going to have a new litter of kittens That wasn't something we planned and wasn't ideal, but the cat we took in right before we moved happened to apparently have gotten pregnant right before we took her in. She will be spayed once the kittens are born and weaned. I'm looking forward to these new little lives.

Anyway... I hope me sharing this was a positive thing. And I hope I didn't jinx myself by mentioning it. The reason I say that is because as soon as I started thinking about it being three years (which it was exactly on the 13th), things started going wrong... like I didn't make it to the clinic on time and was SO sick (my methadone dose just doesn't hold me anymore, I feel sick by midnight most days). An d I can't tell you how close I came to getting some dope so I wouldn't be sick. I had a major panic attack when I got there and they wouldn't medicate me because I was one minute late... and my boyfriend kept saying we wouldn't be sick, he'd get us dope if I wanted it. But I managed to CALM down and see things rationally... and we both survived the night, as miserable as it was. Then, later that day, we were at a friend's tattoo shop, sitting in the office, when something came flying through one of the windows, shattering it... I would probably have been seriously cut up if it had been an inch closer to me. Then, of course, my boyfriend and my friend (who owns the shop), ran out the door and after the kid who did it... thank god they managed to have some restraint and just called the police. Stupidity- all because they asked the kid for ID. So, after that, out of nowhere this thick fog descended. It was all just bizarre... I felt like I was brining bad luck with me, all because I gave myself an emotional pat on the back. It probably h as nothing to do with that, but it seemed that way at the time. Maybe it was just a weird day because it was Friday the 13th.

Ok... this was long. I apologize. I just want everyone to know that staying clean IS possible. It doesn't make everything perfect or simple, but it is so worth it.

~Jennifer

----------

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:27:40 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mona,

We are lucky to have you sharing your story rather than rotting away in a prison for the next two decades, and I hope your turnaround will not only inspire other addicts but also the legal system, which was right to realize that recovery happens and to take a chance on you. Welcome to our discussions.

-Thom

On Jan 16, 2006, at 6:25 PM, Mona Thompson wrote:

> I come from a small town in Northeastern Nevada, gold country, for those of you familiar with the area. I grew up in the 70's and 80's, graduating high school in 84. I started using drugs and alcohol at sixteen to try to combat the boredom and a severe case of "less than". I knew immediately that there was a problem...none of the other people at the party threw up and passed out, the other people at the party knew when to stop. I continued to drink and use drugs for many, many years, trying to find the right combination of anything that would take away the pain, but allow me to remember the previous night or day. Imagine my disbelief the first time I tried meth, and I could remember everything for days on end My meth addiction lasted nine years. Nine years of emotinal, verbal and physical abuse from my ex husband. Nine years of trying to use as much meth as I possibly could, hoping that I would finally have a heart attack an d die. Nine years of becoming everything that I hated, a junkie, an d thief, a liar and a cheat. Nine years of wondering how on earth I was ever going to save myself and my children from the nastiness of life. In 1999 I was arrested for trafficking in meth. If anyone knows about the drug laws in Nevada, I was screwed. 25 years to life, up there with the murderer and the child rapists. By the grace of God, I finally "got it." I went to treatment, I went to 90 meetings in 90 days, and then another 90 in 90. I got a sponsor, I worked the steps of AA. I managed to put together a year of recovery before being sentenced to 18 months in prison. Wow....life on life's terms, what a concept. I got thru prison, and came home without the monkey on my back. I got thru parole without even considering dirty UA's. Six years after my arrest, I'm still trudging my road to happy destiny. I have children that love and trust me. I have parents that love and trust me. I have a self that loves and trusts. To all those ou t there suffering from add iction, there is hope. To all those familie s out there struggling with addicts in their lives, there is hope. And to all those meth addicts, if I can do it, so can you. Find a meeting, find a sponsor, and find your Higher Power. Thanks for listening. Mona

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 05:43:31 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mona and Barbara

I have not written in awhile but after reading your stories I felt I needed to share.

My son is in a recovery program in Florida and has been in for 13 months. It is a program that helps not only the addict but the entire family. SO when he commences we all have the tools to deal with life on life's terms. We have a lifestyle agreement in place for the first 6 months out that will give us the ability to hold boundaries and have consequences. He was used for 5 years and now has 13 months clean. Last Wed. he had a set back in the program which gives him a few days to think again about his recovery. He did not use but failed to be honest with things going on in his life. It was a set back for me also. As well as you think they are doing there is always that nagging voice in their heads that if they could use life would be better. I don't think that ever leaves them. Its how you deal with that voice is the important thing.

My co dependance to him probably hurt him more than anything else I ever enabled him to do. My control and trying to fix him. If nothing else I have learned it is I can not fix him. He has to want to fix himself. I can not let his decisions control my life. Although I will always love and support him in his recovery I will not support him in his poor decision making. I had to give him a negative mike talk in open meeting Friday night. I thought long and hard. We learn to communicate with each other using feeling words and letting each other know how the problems affect us personally. My talk was "I feel anxious, afraid, apprehensive, worried, sad, frustrated, concerned, confused about your use of old addictive ways to deal with your feelings because I believe that it will result in your going back out and using to solve your problems." By getting my feelings out there and letting him know that I have feelings over what is happening to him lets him see how his life affe cts me. I have to let him make his mistakes and correct them. I too k away from him the ability to learn from his mistakes when he was younger and can not do that anymore. He is doing well, goes to NA meetings, goes to school but still has a problem with relationships and being honest over the little things that could affect his recovery. Once the guilt sets in the fix he looks for is drugs. He has choices to make and I do to.

I couple of books I have read that really helped me are Co dependant No More and Boundaries. It is still hard for me to give up my will to help him in times of trouble but I am learning. I firmly believe that we are here for a reason. In this place and his time to either help ourselves or others. God gave us a free will but we must often give it back so we can move forward.

Thank you both for sharing your stories. I can relate to both of you.

Recovery is not just for the addict but for those that have to deal with them also.....

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From: "Just A Sister"

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:12:27 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Here's to breaking free from never being heard, never being understood, and always being shown/told what I have to say just isn't good enough.

just a sister.

But also

a friend

an individual

a neice

a cousin

and

a stranger.

For every title i've posted, there are at least two people in each category (except individual) related accordingly that are addicts and/or alcoholics.

I have no idea how to explain all of this. I don't even know my own story.

Thank you for being here.

I will post when i have my story.

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:52:13 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi "Just A Sister"... I don't know how you found your way to this board (that might be a place to start in telling us about yourself), but it is an incredible group of people. I think I speak for everyone in welcoming you to the board. I'm not sure what it is you want to share... but take as much time as you want to gather your thoughts. This truly is a safe place to share about pretty much anything and receive feedback and/or support. I look forward to hearing more from you. :)

Carol- I am glad to hear that your son is doing well in treatment... even if he had a minor setback, he's still doing much better than most addicts. I don't know exactly what happened, but moving forward and then taking a few steps back is something that happens to most people in life in general, but definitely in recovery. I have all kinds of thoughts that are probably not healthy... but I work through them and move on. Being an addict isn't just about the drugs... the whole lifestyl e becomes addictive itself. Perhaps your son is trying to let that go... but old habits can pop up every now and then. And I think it is wonderful that you were able to have a dialogue with him about his setback. Just that fact speaks volumes about the progress you have both made.

Also- you have told us a bit about the program your son (and you) is in... what I was wondering is how old your son is and if the program is only for adolescents. I just ask because I can't imagine a thirty-year-old man going into treatment and having his parents be part of that when they don't have a big role in his life. I'm just curious to know more about it... I hope that question made sense.

I hope everyone is well today. :grin:

~Jennifer

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From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:04:50 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer

I have a few messages posted here about my program. It is called S.A.F.E. My son was 20 when he went in Nov 19th 2004. He will be 22 when he commences. It is a program for kids ages 14-24. There seem to be allot of adult based recovery programs but not too many for the adolescent. It seems that most start their drug use at around 12. That is the time to catch it. I wish I had the knowledge years ago and would have caught it earlier. It is peer based with the emphasis on the 12 steps and 5 criteria. It teaches us to communicate on a feeling level, which most addicts can't do. I saw my son push his feeling down so deep that he did not even know what he was feeling anymore and chose drugs to hide what was left. I am going to share you response with him. Thank you for writing. :ooh:

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From: "Trina Dalby"

Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:29:19 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I just want to say every posting is very encouraging. It is hard to admit your problems, even now I am not ready, but am very encouraged by those who can. Thank you. :grin:

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From: "Mona Thompson"

Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:46:02 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Barb and Carol,

Yes, I still go to AA meetings, although not as often as I used to, and, my sponsor would say, not as often as I need to. I have read both book you recommend, Carol, and make every person I sponsor read them also. Trust is very hard to re-establish, and the biggest part of trust comes from communication, so you're on the right track with your son. When I was fresh in recovery, I had to tell my parents what the warning signs were that I was using again. The biggest was "lost time." We had to confront the issues as they occured, and, at times, the confrontation was nasty. I don't like to be criticized, and every time my mom tried to confront me on any of my "issues", I felt like I was being attacked and totally shut down. We ended up using email, of all things, to communicate about the issues that made me feel like running. Anger was one of the biggest triggers in my life, and the inability to deal with it. My solution for 17 years was to get drunk or get high, forget talking. Barb, the anger you feel for your son is okay. I didn't just have to deal with the anger that my parents had, but at 4 years clean, my BROTHER finally sat down with me and told me how pissed he was at me for everything I'd put the family thru. And today, at 6 1/2 years clean, I have an 11 year old son in a long term treatment center (God forbid he has to follow my path to adulthood), and he tells me how rotten his childhood was because I was an addict. I'm now dealing with his anger too. And here's the kicker, I'm still clean and sober, WOOHOO At least both of you care, and, at some point in time, both of your children will say "thank you", I promise. Mona

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From: "Diane Spencer"

Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:33:02 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

In a message dated 1/18/06 4:49:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Discussions@elephantonmain.com writes:

> And here's the kicker, I'm still clean and sober, WOOHOO

Mona,

I am so proud of you that is a great accomplishment Your story will inspire others to keep on their journey to wellness. Thanks so very much for sharing with all of us, you don't know how much I appreciate it.

"Surrender to the reality that life is exactly as it

should be in this moment"

Blessings,

Diane

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From: midoriadams

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 00:20:51 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hello everyone,

I am a mother and have been dealing with my only daughter's, 18 years old, drug addiction for the past 2 years. Recently, I was recommended a book called "Crank" by Ellen Hopkins and was told that I should sent it to my daughter at the college to read. Has anybody read the book? If so, would you recommend it? I don't know if reading a book help my daughter in any way but I can't just sit and doing nothing. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you so much.

MA, feeling helpless

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From: "Susan L"

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 02:31:25 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

You could send your child any book you want ( no, I haven't read it) but unfortunatly, no matter how hard you try, no one will start REAL recovery until THEY themselves have hit their bottom and are ready. It is no parents fault, no siblings, boyfriends, girlfriends, cousins etc... fault in this, that's just the way it is. I had to go to quite a few rehabs (always for others) and jail a few times to figure out it wasn't worth it. I honestly hope your child will figure this out very soon so she won't have to put you through what I did to my family and friends, nevermind myself.

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From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:00:31 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Okay, Midoria, it's now MA. I couldn't find your post on the board so I guess you deleted it yourself right after you sent it. Yes. you can now change your password. Look forward to your posts.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478.5064

On Jan 23, 2006, at 3:20 AM, midoriadams wrote:

> Hell o everyone,

> I am a mother and have been dealing with my only daughter's, 18 years old, drug addiction for the past 2 years. Recently, I was recommended a book called "Crank" by Ellen Hopkins and was told that I should sent it to my daughter at the college to read. Has anybody read the book? If so, would you recommend it? I don't know if reading a book help my daughter in any way but I can't just sit and doing nothing. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you so much.

> MA, feeling helpless

----------

From: MA

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:31:15 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Dear Thom,

Just one more little request I just checked the elephant site and it read

"On Jan 23, 2006, at 3:20 AM, midoriadams wrote:

.......................................................................................

MA - feeling helpless"

midoriadams is what I wanted to avoid showing in any area of the site. Would you please delete my name from the site. I apologize for the inconvenience and thank you again for your support.

Sincerely,

Midori

----------

From: MA

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hello everyone,

I am a mother and have been dealing with my only daughter's, 18 years old, drug addiction for the past 2 years. Recently, I was recommended a book called "Crank" by Ellen Hopkins and was told that I should sent it to my daughter at the college to read. Has anybody read the book? If so, would you recommend it? I don't know if reading a book help my daughter in any way but I can't just sit and do nothing. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you so much.

MA, feeling helpless

----------

From: "Trina Dalby"

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:18:43 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I work for a company in Alabama that provides substance abuse counseling (among other things) to women coming out of prison or county jails. (I run the office) I know what it is like to want that sip of vodka or glass of wine, but I have never used drugs- let me rephrase that, I smoked pot a couple of times and tried cocaine. Luckily it didn't appeal to me. the alcohol on the other hand is appealing, every day. Anyway, we had two girls that got ahold of a syringe and crushed benadryl and shot it up. This had been a couple of weeks ago but they had bragged or rather confided, bad thing to do here. They were ratted on and yesterday both went back to prison. While doing my office work and listening to them cry to their parole officers and counselors, I couldn't understand the benadryl thing. One thing one girl said was that it was the rush of seeing the blood starting to go in the syringe. Like I said I don't understand the drug use, but I can imagine it is similar in s ome ways, needing the fix. Is that what it is?

----------

From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:25:53 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Everyone-

I don't know if I should post this here or not, but I am losing it so I need to. I need HELP... I do not know what to do or how to handle this. Last night my boyfriend went out to do some computer work, apparently... and he never got home. Finally this morning, when I happened to fall asleep for maybe twenty minutes, he must have tried to call... then he called my grandmother who called to tell me that he is in jail I called the police district where they said he was, but they told me they can't tell me ANYTHING, only that he is there. So I have no idea what happened and I am just beside myself... I can't stop panicking and crying. I am here with NO money, literally not even a penny, NO food, nothing... and a cat that is about to give birth. I have been so depressed lately that I have barely been making it through everyday... so i cannot cope with something like this. I can't even get to my clinic now to get medicated and pick up my take-homes. We live SO FAR from there now... not that that matters, with the way my back is I can't walk more than a few blocks anyway. I don't know what to do... and to top it all off, John (boyfriend) has my driver's license and the housekeys. I don't know what to do... this has happened before, but in the past I knew what had happened because the cops came and kicked our door in and arrested him. He FINALLY got out from under all of this shit that happened FOUR YEARS ago... his probation just ended like two months ago. I thought this would never happen again, that I'd never have to go through this again. I don't know what to do... I can't stay here with no food or anything, but I have no way to go anywhere. This is one of those times when I REALLY need my parents... and I can't lean on them for support. When this happened in the past, john's best friend helped me out and the last time a good friend of mine helped me deal with things... but, oddly enough, they both moved to F lorida, about a year apart. And other than them, we don't have any fr iends. I am hysterical here. I don't know what to do Any suggestions or thoughts would be so welcome. I can't even tie my own shoes because of my back What the hell am I supposed to do?? I don't know what I'm asking or trying to say, but I needed to tell somebody what is happening. I can't deal with this, I'm going to have a nervous breakdown or something... and I didn't even get to talk to him because I fell asleep. Dammit. I don't know what to do without him... there is nothing I am more afraid of than somethng like this happening. So why does it have to happen?? What do I do? God, I'm already feeling dopesick because my dose isn't right, and now I can't even get to the clinic to get medicated. And if I don't, I'm going to have a problem with my counselor because I see him on wednesdays. Shit like this really makes me wish I wasn't on methadone... then again, if I wasn't on it, I might go out and get high. *sigh*

:frown:

~Jennifer

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:36:47 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Trina-

I don't know why I'm bothering to post this when I should be trying to figure out my life, but I thought I would anyway. I can't say why anyone does what they do, but about what the girl said.... when you're an IV drug user, you get addicted to the whole ritual of shooting up... that's almost as hard to stop as the drug itself. There were times when I was using that I shot up water or even whiskey just to shoot something. My boyfriend was always the same way... honestly, he still struggles with that... anything that he could possibly shoot, he would... sleeping pills, benzos, methadone, muscle relaxants, ANYTHING. It's a hard thing to stop doing because of the ritual it becomes... not to mention the way it starts to become viewed as instant gratification. I don't know if that answers your question... my brain is just mush right now.

~Jennifer

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From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:48:23 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

Get to the clinic. There has got to be someone you can call for a ride; some way to get there. Call one of the methadone advocates you've dealt with in the past, perhaps? Make getting to the clinic your sole focus right now. Forget John for a few hours. He's probably not going anywhere right away. Forget the cat; she'll take care of herself. Get your medication, talk to your counselor, then take it from there.

-Thom

From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:09:04 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jennifer,

being sick because meth dosage off... a priority Focus your energies so you can stablize. I know you know somebody... even close at hand who can help. Ask. Ask a neighbor. It doesn't have to be a friend... anybody. just do it. Get there.

your finances/food... you may have already tried these routes but :

1. Salvation Army hands out a bag of groceries.

2. Churches. Many churches have discretionary pastor funds, although others don't. My church gives money to the Salvation Army and if we get a call or someone who comes in, we call Salvation Army to alert them. They can offer more than we can

3. United Way... although they are an administrative arm, they know who they fund and who the agencies assist. They may even have a resource to help get you a ride.

your inner strength:

Jennifer, write a 12-step MI. Just do it. And see where it takes you. Then list 2 short term goals you are going to achieve today.

boyfriend in jail... right now take care of you. You are worthy. You count too.

Love and support,

Linda

From: MA

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:35:01 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

Thom is so right. Please focus just on yourself May be you can get a ride from a local volunteer group, a clinic or your counselor may have a suggestion, your old friend, or it may be a time to reach out for your parents. Please stay strong and get to the clinic. I am thinking of you.

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From: "Michelle B."

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:53:01 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

I wanted to you this a.m. regarding your comments about your parents, I simply didn't have time. To read your posts, today, I know your feeling in crisis/isolated/dope sick. To concentrate on getting to that clinic is your priority. I know you can do it. If a counselor or neighbor can't give you a ride, could you not call your parents, do they need to know the reason they are giving you a ride across town? Use your imagination. You can solve this one problem. Get there.

You've been doing so well, better than a couple of weeks ago. This is just a minor setback. You can accomplish this. Do not overwhelm your self w/John/parents/cat...Life has as a lot of setback each day. They become mountains when your withdrawing. Focus on yourself right now and getting to that clinic. Your stronger than your giving yourself credit for. Please drop a note when you've accomplished this one goal and let all those who care for you here know that you succeeded. We'll be watching for your response. Michelle

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From: "Michelle B."

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:05:07 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Trina,

I was a IV drug user when I was young. I shot crystal meth, there were "friends" that would shoot ice water, they said it was "better than nothing." That didn't make sense to me, so I never did it, but obviously it isn't something new. Part of the ritual? Maybe so. I don't know if there is a chemical rush to the heart since it's just ice water, of course whiskey is something else all together. And benadryl, which a lot of kids/adults beg for in jail does cause drowsiness, so there must be some benefit to shooting it. Michelle

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:08:28 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thank you guys for all of the rational responses. I hate posting about stuff like this because I hate that my life is so chaotic... but I guess if it wasn't I wouldn't be human. That's just my parents' shit worming its way into my brain- they make me feel like I'm not "clean" or "in recovery" because I don't have every aspect of my life in order. It makes me feel like I'm saying that I used, like something bad happening is equivalent... urgh. At least I realized that my thinking about this has been skewed...

Anyway... I really appreciate the concern and the prompt responses I got. I really don't know what I would do without this board. It's so funny that you all told me to make my #1 priority getting to the clinic because I did call my family- actually, John called my grandmother when he couldn't get me on the phone, so she called to tell me where he was... and then I called my parents. As messed up as our relationship is, I still want to run to them when stu ff like this happens. They had about zero emotional support to provide... but they didn't throw it in my face as much as they could have. Anyway, it's funny that you all told me to get to the clinic because my grandmother and my parents told me all day, while I was frantic trying to figure out how to get there, that the clinic should be my LAST concern right now. They just don't get it... my grandmother asked what would happen if I missed a day, and when I tried to explain it to her, she just said "oh, but you wouldn't get in any trouble with your clinic? It's ok then, you can just go tomorrow." She means well and is very supportive, but she just doesn't understand. My parents kept saying the same thing- just go tomorrow. So frustrating. It's not that I don't reach out to my parents when stuff like this happens... as someone mentioned that it would be a good time to talk to them... they just have absolutely no interest in helping me in anyway that involves the clini c. They said they can't help with that because it's just something th ey don't believe in- my dad said he just wouldn't be able to stomach taking me "to that place"... it would be like helping me kill myself. URGH They have the right idea about not enabling, only they don't understand what things are HELPING me... they feel like taking me to the clinic would be helping me stay addicted. Plus, they live in New Jersey and I live in Philadelphia. It's not like just asking them to leave work and give me a quick ride... it would take a lot of time out of their day... and there would be no way for them not to know where I have to go. But when I said I had NO ONE to ask for help, I truly meant NO ONE... we just moved, and I have never even spoken to any of my neighbors (most of them are college students so they've been away for winter break until last week)... I literally have NO friends here in Philly (not that I do in NJ either- they all moved away like I did). The two friends we had, just moved to Florida... I called *everyone* I could thin k of, acquaintances that might give me a ride, but got nowhere. I even asked my ex-boyfriend, who I spent all of last night talking to online (we're still friends, we've been talking a lot lately) while I was up panicking because John was missing... so he knew what happened. He's also on methadone, so he understands how important it is that I get there... he lives in Delaware though... he said he would come and get me, but his car is apparently having severe problems (not just an excuse- he mentioned it a couple times this week)... and he's NOT the ideal person to be around, he's been on a major coke-shooting binge and still does dope even though it's useless with the methadone... but I was willing to be around even someone unhealthy to get there. No luck. I called the clinic and my counselor... he really couldn't offer me any help other than saying they could give me tokens to get back home once I got there. And that the transportation program here would reimburse fo r a cab if I got a receipt. A lot of people have a very hard time gra sping the idea of NO money, not even any spare change laying around. Anyway, sorry that was so long and rambling... eventually, my mom told me she would pay for my cab. So I took the cab to the clinic, and when I got there they refused to let her pay with her credit card over the phone. When I called they said it was fine, but then when I got there they said I NEVER mentioned the payment issue when i called for the cab, which I did... and they said they can't take a credit card over the phone, they have to take an imprint of it. So they kept saying if my mom wanted to pay, they'd drive me to her- but they just didn't get the part about her living in another state Or about me having no cash... they just kept saying "well you just have to pay cash" (i had to talk to a million different people including the driver)... "i'm sure you can borrow it from someone where you are"... most of those people would rather spit on me than even share as much as a cigarette, nevermind $2 0 for a cab. So they finally started threatening me and saying if I didn't pay in five minutes the police would be called and I would be arrested Why is everything so complicated? I was like hysterically crying by this point and the receptionist at the clinic, who is really sweet, came to ask what was going on and she had the clinic supervisor with her. In the end, after most of the other people left for the day, the supervisor at the clinic paid for the cab... she even went out in the freezing cold to go to an atm to get cash. And she gave me more money than I needed, so I had money to grab *something* to eat and get cigarettes. This is the same supervisor I had so many problems with when I was trying to get my take-homes. My clinic constantly amazes me- after being at such a terrible clinic for two and half years, I can't believe some of the things the staff at my current clinic do to help clients. They really go above and beyond what is expected of them and wh at most clinic counselors do. I'm really lucky to have ended up at th is clinic, as much as I may complain about it sometimes. Anyway, so then I saw my counselor since he stays late on wednesdays... we talked for a while and I felt a lot better after talking to him. I got incredibly lucky with this counselor, he's really devoted to his job and it's obvious that he loves what he does. He told me he just turned down a higher-paying supervisory position to stay where he is. So, in the end, after going half-crazy, I made it to the clinic so I got medicated and got my take-home for tomorrow. Thank god.

Anyway, other than that, I still haven't heard anything from John and it's almost 3am. I'm thinking this is a BAD sign. I can't even think about it though or I'll lose it again.

My parents did help me out though... my dad came over around 10pm and brought me a TON of groceries and dinner (my mom is an incredible cook, I definitely miss home-cooked meals every night)... and some money. Plus, my mom sent me money along with my brother's senior picture in the mail before this happened which should get here tomorrow. My grandmother also sent money, so as long as the mail is ok, I should be ok with money for a few days. Of course, i had to do something wrong when my dad came- I was awake all night last night because I was worried about John, didn't know where he was. So right after I talked to my dad and gave him directions, i must have fallen asleep in the exact same position because I woke up an hour later sitting up with the phone, ringing, in my hand- it was my mom telling me that my dad had been outside for twenty minutes. He was PISSED... he gave me the groceries without a word, then told me how nice it was that I spend my time high on methadone (yeah right) and nodding out instead of waiting for him... and then he sped away. Five minutes later, there was a knock at my door. Apparent

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:09:20 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

oops, too long, here's the rest:

Apparently what I said about passing out from exhaustion finally permeated his anger... he apologized and talked to me for a few minutes... he asked if I wanted to go somewhere, but then changed his mind because I didn't look good enough. *sigh*... he constantly says that methadone and my boyfriend have aged me ten years, that I look like I'm in my thirties instead of 22. and of course he had a bunch of comments to make about my house... and got mad when I tried to introduce him to one of my cats (i wanted him to see the cat because his name is Joey... that's my dad's name, so the cat was kinda named after him... and that cat is scared of EVERYONE- this is the first time I ever saw him approach someone and my dad blew it off). *sigh*... it can't be perfect. However misguided, I know my parents want to help me and I know they love me. I just wish we could somehow get over these major hurdles that are keeping us apart. Now's not the time to worry about that though.

Anyway, I am going to TRY to sleep, although it may not happen (they last time john was in jail- last spring for a probation violation- he got kicked off our clinic with no detox and started using again, so he didn't report one month- I didn't sleep for a month, stayed awake the whole time, don't feel safe without him). Now I'm feeling guilty because I got medicated and I know how sick John must be... we missed the clinic on Friday and he really lost it, couldn't deal- i practically had to physically restrain him from going to get dope. At least the philadelphia prison system maintains methadone patients on their medication... but it takes a week or more to get started. And I don't even want to think about him being there that long...

again, thank you guys so much for the support. I'll let you know what happens...

~Jennifer :asleep:

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From: "Trina Dalby"

Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:24:32 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

God bless you. I am very glad you were able to get to the clinic and that your parents helped you. I pray that you will be able to sleep and figure things out for yourself.

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From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:38:28 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

I gotta tell you this story... my daughter was about 5 years old when we took her out trick or treating for the first time. At the first house we visited, we knocked on the door for her and prompted her to say trick or treat. Instead of paying attention to us, she heard a dog barking and exclaimed to the woman, "do you have a dog?" Of course the answer was yes. She was so involved in petting the dog and asking if she could visit again. On to the next house. There was a new born baby there. You guessed it, she asked if she could hold the baby. By the time we got through our neighborhood, I believe she had gotten only about 10 pieces of candy in her bag because we "visited" with the people at each house. Tired and content at the end of the evening, she looked up at me and said, "Mommy, I didn't see any strangers tonight." Well, they were ALL strangers when we set out that evening My point is... Philly or New Jersey, Florida or California... neighbors are neighbors... people are people... it's time you showed yourself to the people around you and let them in on a well kept secret that we - on this posting board - already know. You are a pretty amazing person. "Why do this?" you ask. Because I have learned that people help people if given the chance. It's how I am surving the intense program my daughter is in.... by people helping me everywhere I turn.

Congrats for the actions you took. Congrats for winning the battle. Planning some more forward movement?

How old are your parents?

I'd write more but I'm exhausted and gotta get home. I've spent 3 incredible days being a host mom (with another parent) for the girl clients at S.A.F.E. (the clients actually live in our homes in the evenings and weekends... "our" meaning the parents of the client group.) I don't know how the parents who do this day in and day out have been able to survive - working full time, managing their own program AND taking care of the clients most evenings during the week. I'm done in after only 3 nights Well, ok, I did have to drive over 1-1/2 hours just to get there from work... and the first morning back, I took a wrong turn and got to work 3 hours later... but that's another story... my hat is off to those in my parent group who are the mainstay host homes because of the "luck of the draw"... their proximity to the building.

Jennifer, I know for me, I have to keep unbundling the issues I deal with so that I am dealing with them one at a time. Otherwise, I get overwhelmed... especially if I'm tired or not feeling well.

Love and support,

Linda

From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:18:53 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thank you, Linda, that was a sweet story with a nice message. I wish I could do that, reach out to neighbors and meet people... but it's just not that simple. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I live in the ghetto... it's a college neighborhood, but still- Temple University just happens to be smack-dab in the middle of a bad area, For the most part, what I have found living in areas like this is that the majority of the people don't give something for nothing... most are only interested in what they get out of doing something for someone else. Anyway, enough of that... that's not to say that there aren't great people even here... it's just hard to find them. I NEVER see anyone outside... so hopefully when spring comes I'll get a better chance to talk to neighbors. Where we just moved from, we had a few neighbors who we came close to- especially our adopted grandmother, and older woman who lived across the street. She used to drive us to the clinic whenever we needed... but t hen she found out that methadone was a medication and said she couldn't take us anymore because her church does not believe in taking ANY medications or going to doctors, nor can she do anything to facillitate another person getting to a doctor or medicine. So, we kind of had it out about the fact that her church doesn't believe in taking children to the doctor.... adults in the church, that's their choice if they want to ignore their health... but children shouldn't be neglected because of their parents' beliefs.

Anyway, I am very shy socially, but I have been making an effort to talk to strangers on the bus or whatever. Trying to work on my social anxiety, As far as moving forward some more, I was very proud of myself today. Generally John goes EVERYWHERE with me because I am afraid to go out by myself, that definitely leads to panic attacks. But I had to see my psychiatrist today, so I got ready and went by myself... then got something to eat, fill my pres cription, and went to the bookstore. Six months ago I couldn't have d one that alone... but I knew I needed to keep myself occupied instead of coming home and wallowing in my misery and fear. My psychiatrist told me today that she sees definite improvement in my anxiey and panic attacks... she said she was very happy and proud of me for making it there on my own. That felt good to hear...

so I guess that is my forward movement. For now, my goal is just to get through each day as they come and try not to worry too much about tomorrow.

I got some bad news this morning. Once AGAIN, i happened to drift off to sleep for an hour and that was when John called me, but even the damn voice mail wouldn't let him leave a message, so he called my grandmother. Apparently he was charged with retail theft, but RORed when he saw the judge last night... BUT, of course, it can't be that simple... another county is now deciding if they want to get him and bring him there. All over stupid fines that he was told he did not have to pay-his PO said if he paid a certain portion of it, that his probation would be over and they'd forget about the rest of the money- he knew john couldn't pay over $1,000 in fines- and they agreed to this in writing, but apparently issued a warrant for unpaid fines That makes no sense... I REALLY hope they decide not to pursue it. I miss h im so much already... being apart from him feels like my heart is being ripped in half. *sigh*... I don't know what I'm going to do. But I know we'll make it through this, I need to keep reminding myself.

Oh, Linda, you asked how old my parents are- my dad is 47 and my mom is 45... why?

Thank you guys for the prayers and support... I'm going to need much more of that to get through this,

~Jennifer :asleep:

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From: MA

Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:19:04 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

It is great to know that you made it to the clinic and more over you managed to do few other things today all by yourself and you must be proud.

You may not agree but I do feel your parent's love and patience for you. I hope that the relationship between yourself and your parents get better as you progress in your recovery.

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From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:34:29 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jennifer, checking to see how you are....

Linda

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From: "Michelle B."

Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:23:18 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jennifer,

I hope this finds you well. I wanted to make a comment about a prior msg from you re your parents and wishing they could be proud of you. Sometimes, even loved ones, maybe especially loved ones, we have to "teach" them how to treat us. If you want them to say they are proud of you, next time they make a negative comment, tell them how much you appreciate what-ever their input was and emphasis how much you are looking forward to something positive that you've accomplished. Leave it there. Remove your self from the situation, giving them time to wonder about your comment. I know it will be hard to thank them for their negativity. (trust me though, there are mucho parents that don't hang around long enough to even berate you.) But you have to understand, right now, that is all they are focused on, simply because they don't understand. The point is that you must let them know your so looking forward to their approval re something you've done that i sn't negative in their view. If you just wait, you can wait a lifetime. Your parents care, perhaps not in the way you want but make a fresh start in your quest for their approval. I am not suggesting this is a fool proof way to get what you want. Your parents are just that, your parents. They have their own set of values, dreams for you, that never occurred to you and you don't wish to fulfill. That is why you grow-up and find someone loving that will support your dreams/goals/accomplishments. But to gently remind them that your in need of something positive from them is natural. They may never get it, that would be their flaw, not yours. But try. You've insight they are not privy to. You have the ability to teach them. Try. You just might get what you want/need. Blessing, Michelle

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From: Katherine

Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:32:09 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

MA, maybe you could elaborate on your story? Its hard to help with such a vague sense of the issues you and your daughter are dealing with. Do you know if she is still using? Does she live with you? etc etc.

we all want to help you

-Katherine

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From: MA

Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:49:19 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Katherine:

My daughter lives away from home and actively use drugs, and refuses to admit that she has a problem. I am obviously very concerned as I watch her drug use progresses and was wondering if there was anything I could do. I was recommended that reading a book might help, which was "Crank" by Ellen Hopkins, and might trigger to help her think about her choices. I have talked, got angry, cried and begged her but I can not get through to her no matter what, so I am in search of any wisdom that might help my daughter. I hope I made it clear enough this time, if not please let me know. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

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From: Katherine

Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:38:33 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Sending her a book may help, but it sounds like you have already tried to talk to her about this kind of stuff and it hasn't helped. There really isn't much you can do, until she realizes for herself that she needs help.

when you say she "actively" uses drugs, what do you mean? there is quite a large difference between 'active' use and addiction. Do you know how much she uses or how often, or what substances? you don't need to tell me all these details if you don't feel comfortable, but i'd love to hear more about your story. Has she gotten into trouble with the law etc because of her drug use? or lost friends? gotten sick? what makes you think that she has a problem? Is it the fact that she uses at all? or has it seriuosly detrimented her life in some way?

p.s. the fact that she lives away from home also limits the amount of influence you can have, so you may need to start looking to try to let go a bit, but make sure that she knows that you are always willing and eager to help her if she ever needs it.

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From: MA

Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:36:43 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Katherine,

Thank you for your response. I prefer not to go into details of my daughter's problem at this point but I find your advise helpful and I very much appreciate it. As you put it that until she realizes that she has a problem and ask for help, there is nothing I can do, but I am feeling desperate to save her before she hit the real bottom which could be irrevocable.

Detaching myself is definitely a key to stay supportive to my daughter and I hope to learn "how" through the local Alanon and Naranon meetings which I started attending recently.

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From: "barbara smith"

Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:55:24 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I appreciate that you dont want to get into details right now. It is so hard being a parent or the other person when it comes to addiction ( of any kind ). Keep going to the meetings and it really will help. I had to have them court order my daughter into treatment and it was the hardest thing I ever did, but tell you what, she is in a 6 month to a year program and just talking to her there is such a big difference. She sounds like my daughter once again. She is dealing with some of the reasons she is where she is today. She sounds happy, sweet and at peace. Have not heard her sound like this in at least 3 years. Her addiction mostly was alcohol and lortab but got to the point it was totally out of control. Got to the point, she was never without a pint of vodka in her purse driving around with my 3 1/2 year old grandson. How she didnt kill herself or that baby is beyon d me She ended up in the hospital with pancreatis at the young age of 27 and that was it for me. Started going to Alanon and just tried to detach from her. She hated the fact that I was getting stronger and able to see behind all the lies and crap that she was feeding me. Anyway, could go on forever. Just keep hoping and praying and keep going to the meetings. Your daughter is in my prayers. Hopefully, she will see the light. I know how much it hurts, but take care of yourself. She is in God's hands

barb

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 21:03:26 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Barb,

It's wonderful to see how much better things have gotten for Melissa and you in the few months that you've been posting, and that you are now in a position to offer hope to others. It's like seeing the glory of a cell splitting, and splitting again, and splittling again. If this discussion board continues to be part of enabling renewal like this to happen, we will be very gratified, so please continue to keep us posted on your progress.

-Thom

From: MaryW

Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:17:50 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

how do you get someone court ordered to a treatment center?

From: "Susan L."

Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:31:58 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

The only way that I ever knew someone to be Court Ordered to a treatment center was for them to have been arrested and instead of jail or probation they were ordered to a Treatment Program ( happened to me) Sometimes you might have to spend a little time in jail - please don't expect to be so horrid - it's not great but the women aren't as a rule as violent as men. I went thru 17 days in Rikers Island without a problem You can always someone who is an addict to be arrested because they normally have drugs and/or paraphernalia on them. It's a hard call to turn someone in, but you could save their life

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From: Sue

Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 07:53:34 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

WOW I am so thankful I have found this site and thanks for the posts, they are all meaningful, inspiring and heartbreaking. My story is about my 26 year old son who began abusing 9 years ago, progressing from booze, marijuana and then only God knows what...his situation has become the biggest heartbreak of my life...about 2 years ago, I finally realized the I had to stop enabling him..I could no longer allow him to make my life unmanageable..he's been in 4 different rehabs, actually 6, if you want to count the most recent ones at a rescue mission in Tulsa, where he's been kicked out twice and then let back in. Within the last two weeks, he was kicked out of the program again for failing a UA and, from what I was told, is living w/a former prostitute...who knows...my son is such an accomplished liar and I honestly believe that, at this point, he himself doesn't even know the difference between truth/reality. I have found that during those periods of time when he is pract icing sobriety, he has a tendency to fill the 'addiction' with a religious fanaticism..he becomes involved in almost a cult-like group that refer to each other as prophets, etc. Anyone out there reading my post had that same experience---of their child replacing one addiction with another? I LOVE THIS KID so much but like I told him a couple of weeks ago (when he called needing $$ to get a drivers license so he could get a job, which was probably a lie), I'm going to be your biggest supporter when you maintain sobriety, but I can't support your addiction. (He lives in a town about 3-4 hours away from me). I can't imagine my son being homeless, but he's been there and done that...the thought of that is almost incapacitating to me as his mother..his sister is graduating from high school this May and the last thing I want is for him to show up for that..how terrible is that for a Mom to have those feelings? I worry about him daily and tell myself that praying for God to w atch over him is enough, that I'm 'letting go', but it is so hard to j ustify the fact that tough-loving your kid out of your life is the right thing to do....BUT I KNOW IT IS..it's just so unbelievably hard. I can honestly say this son of mine has 'sucked' the joy out of my life, it's a struggle to come to terms with how his addiction has affected all of us, his brother, his sister, his grandparents..never never in a million years would I have ever thought I would deal with this in my life. It's such a contradictory feeling to love/hate your child. Love the kid, hate the addiction. I have a huge wall built up around me when it comes to dealing with his situation and that wall consists of years of lies, manipulations, etc. I don't believe a word out of his mouth. And here's the kicker, out of my 3 kids, he was/is the most kind-hearted/generous/caring one and I still hope for that day when something 'clicks' for him and he can work toward pulling his life together. There have been so many 'rock bottoms' (well, in my opinion) in his life t hat it scares me to think that he could get worse instead of better. Ok, enough rambling from me for today anyway....Like I said above, I am so happy to have found this site..I will enjoy any 'inspirations/words/etc' that you would care to share Thanks for listening

Sue

----------

From: "Kelly S."

Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 18:25:44 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I recently checked my boyfriend of over a year and a half in to a Christian-based 7-month rehab. The last six months of my life have been pure hell. I never in a million years thought I would have to deal with a drug addict and all of the mess it creates in your life. Yes...I am the ultimate enabler and it cost me over $10,000 in credit card debt, a drug dealer shooting up my car (on the dealer's property, no less, so I couldn't file charges) and a broken heart. Like Sue's son, my boyfriend was, in the beginning, the most kind-hearted and generous person. He has now lied so much and taken so much from me, and I am afraid that I will never be able to trust him again. What do you do to rebuild trust when someone has lied to you so much? I love this man and I want to believe him when he writes me and tells me that he wants to create a life worth living. Although he has had drug problems in the past, this was the first time it truly devastated himself and everyone around him. I'm also concerned that since his treatment is totally Christian-based, that he may not receive the type of counseling and therapy that he would receive if he would have been able to pay for rehab. What are your thoughts on this?

----------

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 19:13:15 -0800

To: "Sharon O'Shea"

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Welcome Sue,

I identify with much of what you shared—even the DMV story so he could get a job.

“I can honestly say this son of mine has 'sucked' the joy out of my life,”

Well, no, your son hasn’t sucked it out, but the disease of addiction has. And yes it is quite powerful taking

Everyone attached to the “host” with it.

It doesn’t surprise me that he is the most “generous and kind-hearted,” of your kids. Unfortunately addicts tend to be very sensitive individuals—it’s part of the catch 22—they are sensitive and use drugs to not feel so much.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing that he becomes involved in this religious/cult like group for now, unless it too is harmful in ways I don’t understand. But basically I believe you have to become involved in something besides the addiction and do so with a passion. For many it’s a 12 step group, for others school or church or helping others with addiction issues and getting involved in advocacy.

We’re all here with you Sue, keep sharing.

Deirdre

on 2/5/06 10:53 AM, Sue at Discussions@elephantonmain.com wrote:

> WOW I am so thankful I have found this site and thanks for the posts, they are all meaningful, inspiring and heartbreaking. My story is about my 26 year old son who began abusing 9 years ago, progressing from booze, marijuana and then only God knows what...his situation has become the biggest heartbreak of my life...about 2 years ago, I finally realized the I had to stop enabling him..I could no longer allow him to make my life unmanageable..he's been in 4 different rehabs, actually 6, if you want to count the most recent ones at a rescue mission in Tulsa, where he's been kicked out twice and then let back in. Within the last two weeks, he was kicked out of the program again for failing a UA and, from what I was told, is living w/a former prostitute...who knows...my son is such an accomplished liar and I honestly believe that, at this point, he himself doesn't even k now the difference between truth/reality. I have found that during those periods of time when he is pract icing sobriety, he has a tendency to fill the 'addiction' with a religious fanaticism..he becomes involved in almost a cult-like group that refer to each other as prophets, etc. Anyone out there reading my post had that same experience---of their child replacing one addiction with another? I LOVE THIS KID so much but like I told him a couple of weeks ago (when he called needing $$ to get a drivers license so he could get a job, which was probably a lie), I'm going to be your biggest supporter when you maintain sobriety, but I can't support your addiction. (He lives in a town about 3-4 hours away from me). I can't imagine my son being homeless, but he's been there and done that...the thought of that is almost incapacitating to me as his mother..his sister is graduating from high school this May and the last thing I want is for him to show u p for that..how terrible is that for a Mom to have those feelings? &nb sp;I worry about him daily and tell myself that praying for God to w atch over him is enough, that I'm 'letting go', but it is so hard to j ustify the fact that tough-loving your kid out of your life is the right thing to do....BUT I KNOW IT IS..it's just so unbelievably hard. I can honestly say this son of mine has 'sucked' the joy out of my life, it's a struggle to come to terms with how his addiction has affected all of us, his brother, his sister, his grandparents..never never in a million years would I have ever thought I would deal with this in my life. It's such a contradictory feeling to love/hate your child. Love the kid, hate the addiction. I have a huge wall built up around me when it comes to dealing with his situation and that wall consists of years of lies, manipulations, etc. I don't believe a word out of his mouth. And here's the kicker, out of my 3 kids, he was/is the most kind-hearted/generous/caring one and I still hope for that day when something 'clicks' for him and he can work toward pulling his life together. There have been so many 'rock bottoms' (well, in my opinion) in his life t hat it scares me to think that he could get worse instead of better. Ok, enough rambling from me for today anyway....Like I said above, I am so happy to have found this site..I will enjoy any 'inspirations/words/etc' that you would care to share Thanks for listening

> Sue

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From: "Dawn Dirkse"

Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 19:29:53 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

kelly..i read your blog that you posted on the 5th. I am just writing to give you a little hope. That person that you wrote about-the liar...that wasn't your boyfriend. people can become so entrapped by their addiction that they don't even know who they are anymore. I was an addict for years-i hurt everyone i loved. i found that the people who loved me unconditionally are the ones that are still around today. he can turn his life around, but it's going to take years. he will forever be in recovery. The question you have to ask yourself is if you can stick by him through this. it sounds like you've been there for the worst times, you owe it to the relationship to stick around and see if it gets better. try not to enable him (by giving him money and by getting taken advantage of) but try to be a supporter. you will know in your gut if he lies to you again. I'm glad that he has the opportunity to get help. anything can happen in 7 months, if he sticks with it he has a good chance of remaining clean on the outside with a lot of support. I wish the best for the both of you-stay strong.

dawn

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From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 20:09:55 -0800

To: "Sharon O'Shea"

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Welcome Kelly,

You’ve certainly asked a lot of tough questions. At least you’ve taken the “first step” in realizing your powerless over your boyfriend’s disease and most of the behaviors that go along with it. Trust is the hardest thing to regain but it can happen once you at least believe he is in recovery. I believe that is partly due to the fact that they come to a point where they themselves believe the lies. It’s their protection mechanism. It’s truly their survival instinct gone awry due to the drug use. The drug effect the oldest part of our brain—the part that rules instincts for the need to eat, the need to procreate, the need to protect oneself from elements and other threats to survival. The addicts purpose or instinct is to get more drug. That’s partly

Why it is so difficult to stop using.

The one thing that has proven true in the long run of any type of treatment is the therapeutic alliance between client/patient no matter what the source of treatment. And no one is ever sure which treatment will work the best for which individual. Though if someone does not have some connection to a faith based group I find it difficult for them to connect to their recovery.

Keep posting

Deirdre

on 2/5/06 9:25 PM, Kelly S. at Discussions@elephantonmain.com wrote:

> I recently checked my boyfriend of over a year and a half in to a Christian-based 7-month rehab. The last six months of my life have been pure hell. I never in a million years thought I would have to deal with a drug addict and all of the mess it creates in your life. Yes...I am the ultimate enabler and it cost me over $10,000 in credit card debt, a drug dealer shooting up my car (on the dealer's property, no less, so I couldn't file charges) and a broken heart. Like Sue's son, my boyfriend was, in the beginning, the most kind-hearted and generous person. He has now lied so much and taken so much from me, and I am afraid that I will never be able to trust him again. What do you do to rebuild trust when someone has lied to you so much? I love this man and I want to believe him when he writes me and tells me that he wants to create a life wo rth living. Although he has had drug problems in the past, this was the first time it truly devastated himself and everyone around him. I'm also concerned that since his treatment is totally Christian-based, that he may not receive the type of counseling and therapy that he would receive if he would have been able to pay for rehab. What are your thoughts on this?

From: Jo

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 05:32:11 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Sue,

I have gone through the same thing with my 18-year-old daughter. She was recently diagnosed as bipolar, however, and she is now on medication. It has made a huge difference in her addiction behavior.

I have done a lot of research into bipolar disorder, and a lot of bipolars self-medicate with alcohol and/or drugs. They are very sensitive, caring people, more so than most, and deal with their terrible highs and lows by drinking or doing drugs if not treated. Robert Downey, Jr., is an example that comes to mind.

Just a thought that, if he is willing, instead of a rehab try a psychiatrist and see if that may be the root of his problem. We also went through numerous rehabs with no success. It was only after she was medicated for her bipolar condition did we see a "light" at the end of the tunnel.

My prayers are with you.

----------

From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:03:26 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Mary, I have some files I am forwarding to you about court orders

(Marchman Act). It's for Florida and I do not know if the specifics are the

same in every state.

In my case, I brought my daughter (age 14) into treatment (S.A.F.E. Inc. in

Orlando, Florida). After she was there I completed paperwork to have her

court ordered. I'm divorced with shared custody of my daughter and I did not

want to leave open the possibility of her dad taking her out of treatment.

We were not in agreement as to a recourse of action and he was in denile

about her addiction.

My daughter also signed agreement to being in the program. (In fact, in the

4-months she has been in treatment, she never once said to me that I did

wrong putting her in.) SAFE's staff and other parents in the program helped

me through the process ... in fact, the program director is a lawyer... I

have gotten so much help and support. All it took was courage to making a

phone call and asking for help. There are SO many people in similar

situations.

Linda

From: Sue

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:41:57 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jo,

Thanks for much for your support. Here's the situation I find myself in at this point in my son's life. He is 26 years old and lives about 3-4 hours away from me in another state. Based upon the way I've seen him go downhill rapidly, I really do think he has some type of mental disorder and I have done some research on the bipolar, in fact. I've also come across information on dual-diagnosis'. Have you heard of that also? Anyway, a ABSOLUTELY HUGE obstacle that I face and my son faces, is that even though his age is 26 (his maturity is more like 13), and he has absolutely no $$, no job, no insurance...what options does he have to seek treatment? People that have money can afford wonderful treatment facilities, etc. People that don't have financial backing are pretty much just stuck And, then, that brings me to the point that I've done so much for him over the past 8 years (enabling very much but also coming from my heart, trying to make everything 'r ight' for him), if I step in again, is that enabling? I've been doing the tough love for a couple of years. And what about the concept of the addict has to be the one to seek help? It's just so confusing, so mind-boggling, etc. that, at times, the pain for me is incapacitating. I can't imagine the pain my son feels. Any suggestions???

Thanks everyone

Sue

----------

From: Jo

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:28:40 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi, Sue,

I am familiar with dual-diagnosis; in fact, that's what my daughter has. It is very common in bipolars because they tend to self-medicate with drugs when they are not medicated with mood stabilizers. I found a Bipolar Forum that I am a member of, and I will ask them about financial assistance through the government for medical attention. I do know it is a tedious process, but it is available. If he actually is bipolar, I believe he can also be eligible for Social Security disability. That is also a long "process," as I've read on this site, but it is available.

I guess in my mind there is a difference between enabling, which under no circumstances should you condone his drug use, and finding out if there might be a serious medical condition that has a pretty good success rate with the right treatment. I truly think a lot of drug addicts are suffering from undiagnosed bipolar disorder, and your son sounds so much like my daughter that I felt the need to share my experiences with you. I do know about the concept that the addict needs to seek help for his or herself, but in rare cases do bipolars seek help for themselves. They do not realize they even have a problem until they are regulated on their meds. Then it's like a lightbulb goes off and, bingo, so that's what it feels like to not have these crazy out-of-control highs and excruciating lows where I need to se lf-medicate with drugs. That's what happened with my daughter anyway.

If your son is bipolar, the drug abuse escalates it. It's a very bad combo, and I'm sure he's miserable. I know my daughter was. She would tell me, I don't know what's wrong with me. She would do crystal meth when she was in a depression, then she'd go into a mania, back into a depression. We had four suicide attempts last year, we thought due to drug abuse. When she was finally diagnosed and regulated on meds, she's been sober, back in high school, and pretty much "normal" since October of last year - and I thank God every day.

On a final note, I did the tough love with her before she was diagnosed. It didn't work. She ran away, I was miserable, and she continued to use drugs. I think it only works if the person is a true addict and not mentally ill. I know it's mind boggling and painful to go through. I'll keep you in my prayers and email you with any information I find out from the Bipolar Forum on assistance.

-----Original Message-----

From: Sue

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Sent: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:41:57 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jo,

Thanks for much for your support. Here's the situation I find myself in at this point in my son's life. He is 26 years old and lives about 3-4 hours away from me in another state. Based upon the way I've seen him go downhill rapidly, I really do think he has some type of mental disorder and I have done some research on the bipolar, in fact. I've also come across information on dual-diagnosis'. Have you heard of that also? Anyway, a ABSOLUTELY HUGE obstacle that I face and my son faces, is that even though his age is 26 (his maturity is more like 13), and he has absolutely no $$, no job, no insurance...what options does he have to seek treatment? People that have money can afford wonderful treatment facilities, etc. People that don't have financial backing are pretty much just stuck And, then, that brings me to the point that I've done so much for him over the past 8 years (enabling very much but also c oming from my heart, trying to make everything 'right' for him), if I step in again, is that enabling? I've been doing the tough love for a couple of years. And what about the concept of the addict has to be the one to seek help? It's just so confusing, so mind-boggling, etc. that, at times, the pain for me is incapacitating. I can't imagine the pain my son feels. Any suggestions???

Thanks everyone

Sue

----------

From: MA

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:54:58 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Barb,

I appreciate your message posted on Feb 3rd and it is very encouraging to hear the good new about your daughter. I attend Alanon and Nar-anon meetings everyday but I still cannot even accept that I am powerless, and I, without even my clear intention, am trying to find a way to save my daughter. I am at my wits ends and sick to my stomach with worries. I understand from the meetings that I have to be able to detach myself from my daughter and her addiction, but it is the hardest thing to do right now.

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From: "barbara smith"

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:29:34 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Linda, thank you for sending those files about the Marchman Act to Mary. I would have been happy to do it but havent been at the computer for a few days and just got the email. Melissa is doing fine and I have nothing but praise for that place and for court ordering, helped her and I a lot. Right now she was rushed to the hospital in the middle of the night and they admitted her. She had pancreatitis when she was drinking but she has been sober about 1 1/2 months so we dont know what this is. Her stomach is all bloated and she is throwing up and in intense pain. They are running all sorts of test, kidney, pelvic but so far no answer as to what is going on. They have her on an antibiotic also so there must be an infection somewhere. then today right before I left work to go to the hospital to see her, my doctor called and the mammogram I just had found a density so I have to have a diagnostic and ultrasound. I am really scared because my sister just had breast cancer and went through radiation treatments. Tell you what it is always something. Keep you all posted.

barb

From: MaryW

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:00:08 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thanks for the info. My son is 19. HE has been through two detox facilities

in the past 2 weeks but just gets up an dleaves by the 2nd or third day. I

believe he is trying to kill himself. Has been diagnosed bipolar but if we

cant get a locked down facility, he will not stay. THanks anyway.

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 06:43:54 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mary

I have been watching and reading the emails about the Marchman Act and what your going through. My story is at the beginning of this email trail and I too have a child at SAFE in Orlando. I Marchman Acted my son at age 19 into the program because I knew he would end up dead if I didn't. We have been in treatment for 14 months and hope to commense very soon. He just got his 1 year chip from NA and is now a recovering addict. If you wish to intervin you can do so with this law. Any age person can be Marchman acted if they are a threat to themselves or others. I beleive FL is the only state for this and that is why we have people send their kids to us. We are like a lock down facility but family orientated. With the Marchman act in place and the child does take off than we have the right to vring them back. It is a court order and they can not just walk out. It is well worth looking into if you think it is the only way to get him help.

----------

From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:11:39 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: What's your story?

Hi Everyone-

How are you guys? Wow, so many new faces (well, names at least)... I have

so much I wanted to say in response to a lot of this... especially to Sue

and Kelly, but I don't have time right now. I apologize for not posting

more recently, but there has been so much going on in my life, and I have

been spending time in NJ just so I don't go crazy in this big old house by

myself... and I'm trying, right now as I type, to feed and pet my five cats

and check out the recent litter of SEVEN kitens in addition to that (the

mother stuck them in the wall she just brought them back since it's so

cold... so i'm checking them out now- and no I don't just want to have tons

of kittens- a stray we took in was already pregnant- how typical, right,

taking in strays? I feel like I've done that my whole life, whether with

humans or animals)... anyway, on top of that I am trying to make sure I get

myself to the clinic everyday, which is not going well- I have been missing

SO many days because I have NO money and my parents think if they help me

out they will be helping my boyfriend, so they don't want to do it... and as

for the people I know here, nobody wants to give something for nothing- no

one will give me a ride for free... it makes me sick because I try to do so

much for people, peoplpe I don't really know (at the clinic mostly), when I

have NOTHING myself (like bringing someone home the other day so she could

eat because she's living on the street smoking crack and can't get into

rehab- the clinic tries to help, but at this time of year it takes time),

and it just doesn't come back to me... well, it does in some ways- a cab

driver gave me a ride for free the other day, which saved me from being sick

for another day... but supposed "friends" don't want to help. It's sad.

And my boyfriend is still in jail... and I have not ONCE been able to speak

to him since he has been there- my phone lets me accept collect calls, but

it won't let me accept the jail collect calls (LONG story, but the phone

line isn't mine, it was here when i moved in and no one knows who it belongs

to, if anyone- so the phone company won't put MY phone line in because

another is here that isn't through their company)... so I don't know what's

going on other than through bits and pieces I get through his parents. I

know he is in another county for an unpaid fine (his mom has paid it- I have

to find out today what is going to happen now, if he'll be released if

they'll hold him longer anyway) and he is in the medical ward being

"detoxed" (and what that means is just that they give him a couple tylenols

and make sure he doesn't die- it's SO frustrating- he was FINALLY getting on

a stable, blocking dose- of methadone, i'm sorry, many of you don't know me

and have NO IDEA what I'm blabbering about- and doing so much better and

then this happens... if he was in philadelphia county, he'd be medicated in

jail, but he's not, so... the clinic will readmit him as soon as he is

released, but how long is it going to take for him to get back to where he

was?? It had been six months that he'd been on our new clinic, after his

last jail detox, and was finally starting to make progress... and ALL of

these legal issues stem from some things that happened in feb of 2002, that

are STILL coming back to haunt us...

Anyway, so my life is a complete mess, I'm broke, I'm going nuts being here

alone (my anxiety is out of control, which is probably why my thoughts are

so scattered), my health insurance lapsed, and I don't know what to do with

all of this... I'm hoping John will be released this week since the fine has

now been paid. Ok, I'll post more later...

Sue- the one thing I did want to say is that there ARE options for treatment

even when you don't have any money... I've been in a methadone program (that

saved my life and has helped me stay clean) for three years now and I have

NOTHING. And I have watched many people on the clinic go into inpatient

treatment as well for other addiction issues (other than the

opiate-addiction, i mean) or for dual diagnosis treatment... i know every

state is different, but it seems that there is funding out there if you

look... i know it's not simple, but I just wanted to say that... i am SO

late for the clinic, i have to go.

~Jennifer

From: "barbara smith"

Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:10:40 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mary, I have told you about my daughter Melissa who was Marchman Acted. The difference if truly amazing and it has only been a little over a month and she is quoting to me from AA and so proud that she just got her first month chip. Tells me when I am being co-dependent and so on, She is in the hospital now but she cannot wait to get out and back to the rehab. She has even been sitting in the hospital bedworking on her treatment plan. Please just look into it. They might be pissed at you at first ( first 5 letters I got were hate mail from her) but in the end they will thank you and understand you did it out of love not anger good luck Barb

Carol Levine wrote:

> Mary

> I have been watching and reading the emails about the Marchman Act and what your going through. My story is at the beginning of this email trail and I too have a child at SAFE in Orlando. I Marchman Acted my son at age 19 into the program because I knew he would end up dead if I didn't. We have been in treatment for 14 months and hope to commense very soon. He just got his 1 year chip from NA and is now a recovering addict. If you wish to intervin you can do so with this law. Any age person can be Marchman acted if they are a threat to themselves or others. I beleive FL is the only state for this and that is why we have people send their kids to us. We are like a lock down facility but family orientated. With the Marchman act in place and the child does take off than we have the right to vring them back. It is a court order and they can not just walk out. It is well worth looking into if you think it is the only way to get him help.

From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 04:54:18 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Barb-

I just wanted to tell you how glad I am to hear that Melissa is doing well. I know you really struggled with the decision to have her forcibly sent to rehab, and it is so good to hear that it is working out for the best. How is your grandson doing? Do you get to see him- or is he always there at the program with her? Also, you said Melissa is in the hospital? I don't want to pry, if it's personal, I understand... just wanted to make sure it's nothing serious? Anyway, glad to hear things are looking up for you and your daughter. She should be proud of herself. :)

~Jennifer

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:38:10 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jo-

What you said about a light-bulb going on when someone with bipolar disorder finally realizes that there truly is something wrong with them and that they don't have to live that way anymore is SO true. I had such a similar experience. Throughout my teenage years, I was completely and utterly miserable but no amount of therapy and Prozac made things any better (in fact, SSRIs like Prozac, Paxil, etc, are generally contraindicated in bipolar individuals because they can induce mania- so I was being given the worst possible meds)... my moods stayed out of control. It got to the point where my parents and I gave up completely on therapy and meds because *nothing* worked for my supposed "clinical depression"... my mom was so tired of it that she told me she didn't even want to hear about my out-of-control emotions anymore. Not long after that, I decided I wasn't going to learn something profound from being miserable (i really romanticized that whole genius-madness thing as a young teen- I thought if my suffering stopped, I would no longer have any depth or talent- I wrote a lot at the time, thought it was what I wanted to do with my life- I didn't want to damage my "creativity," so I never drank or smoked pot or anything like that in high school- just jumped straight to heroin after i graduated) and I started abusing opiates and quickly moved on to shooting heroin. That was the first time in my life that I felt "normal"... or at least what I thought normal was, how I thought other people felt because it allowed me to function normally (go to college, have a job, actually have friends and socialize without complete and utter terror, etc) until I could no longer easily support my habit and then the addiction took over my life. That went on for a few years, and some jail time and a few rehabs later, around the time i turned 19 I was really struggling to stay clean without any long-term success. I wanted to, but couldn't deal with my insane mood swings that would return when I was substance-free- in fac t, around that time I also started shooting cocaine (adding another drug addiction to the mix certainly was the last thing I needed). I got so frustrated with myself... sort of like you said your daughter did, I constantly would sit and cry with my mom, asking her what was wrong with me that I couldn't function in life like most people- the drugs made things worse, but before that I couldn't function either.

Well, around that time my light-bulb moment happened. My mom happened to see a documentary (on MTV of all places) about young people with bipolar disorder. As soon as she saw the show, she came running up to my bedroom to tell me that I HAD to see this show, that these girls were describing EXACTLY what I had said I'd been feeling and experiencing for years. She was sure I had bipolar disorder, and after watching the show I agreed... it was a major epiphany for me. For so long I had thought I was just "damaged goods" and weak for not being able to lead a n ormal life, with or without drugs. I finally knew that I really did have a mental illness, it just wasn't any of the things that I had been told most of my life by therapist and psychiatrists (apparently bipolar disorder often goes un- or mis- diagnosed for YEARS in many that suffer from it). So I got myself into an outpatient dual diagnosis program... and FINALLY I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder (I didn't even tell the doctor I thought that's what was wrong- I wanted him to confirm it just based on my symptoms) and put on the proper medications... they certainly were not a cure as it takes time to find the right combination of meds, but I finally felt like there was hope for me to be able to lead a normal, happy life. And with the help of that program and AA, I stayed clean for four or five months (a major accomplishment at the time). Unfortunately, the meds were not a cure-all, although they did help with many of my symptoms... but I was impatient and started sho oting coke at school to get through my classes (which really is illogi cal because I'd be running to the bathroom every fifteen minutes- but at least that GOT me to class instead of being too depressed to get out of bed) and soon added the heroin back in as well. Of course, that also led to me abruptly stopping my medications and my sessions with my psychiatrist and therapist.

My parents tossed me out of the house and I ended up on the street... you said that you don't thin tough love really works on someone who is mentally ill. I'm not sure I agree with that- I think my parents handled that situation in the right way. I think some people can become too mentally ill to be able to make any rational choices whatsoever... but I felt like once I KNEW that I had a legitimate mental illness that was made worse by my addiction (and vice versa) I had a responsibility to ensure that I was being treated for both issues. I was fully capable of making the decision to find help, I just chose not to... but ending up on the street, among many ot her things, sort of showed me where I did NOT want to be in my life and that's when I got myself into a methadone program. I have been very lucky in that the methadone is very effective at regulating my moods... the three years since I got clean and on methadone have been the first years in my life that my moods have finally been relatively stable... I still get depressed or a little manic (I never got the "positive" symptoms of mania- for me it always was unbearable anger and irritability- dysphoria as opposed to euphoria- not that mania is pleasant in general, but for many bipolar people it can be a pleasant state for a while- until it gets out of hand- I won't get into all of the symptoms though, there are plenty of resources available about that for anyone who wants to know more about bipolar disorder), but it is manageable. My moods no longer rule my life like they used to. For me, that is a MAJOR benefit of methadone maintenance. I still have to take care of my me ntal health though... bipolar disorder is not the only issue I have. I have also been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and panic disorder with agoraphobia (I got a whole slew of anxiety disorders- lucky me)... I take psych meds for those problems and see a psychiatrist for med checks and therapy once a week. I also see a counselor at my methadone program once a week who specializes in dual diagnosis (I got lucky- many counselors at such programs are just useless, honestly- I know it's a tough job, but they seem to hire people, out of need, I'm sure, that are quite qualified for the job). I have to make sure I stay on my methadone and my psych meds, as well as attending my therapy/counseling sessions to deal with both my mental illnesses and my addiction issues. They really go hand in hand.

SO MANY addicts are dually diagnosed, particularly with bipolar disorder. However, that is NOT an excuse for our drug use... it may explain it, but it doesn't excuse it. As I said, now that I know w hat I am dealing with, I really feel as though I have a responsibility to see to my mental health in order to stay sober and to stay sober in order to stay psychologically well. I do think it is very important that anyone with a mental illness, but especially someone with drug and alcohol issues as well, be seen by a qualified doctor and properly diagnosed. It is very hard to deal with substance abuse issues if you are not treating your mental illness. So for the person who thinks their son may be bipolar (was it Sue? I'm sorry, I've been preoccupied and am just now catching up on posts), I think it would be EXTREMELY beneficial for him to get into a good program for dual diagnosis so his mental health can be assessed and treated along with his addiction. It is a HUGE relief to find out exactly what is going on in your brain and to know that it can be TREATED- that really

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:39:27 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Oops, too long- I apologize for the little bit of overlap here:

SO MANY addicts are dually diagnosed, particularly with bipolar disorder. However, that is NOT an excuse for our drug use... it may explain it, but it doesn't excuse it. As I said, now that I know what I am dealing with, I really feel as though I have a responsibility to see to my mental health in order to stay sober and to stay sober in order to stay psychologically well. I do think it is very important that anyone with a mental illness, but especially someone with drug and alcohol issues as well, be seen by a qualified doctor and properly diagnosed. It is very hard to deal with substance abuse issues if you are not treating your mental illness. So for the person who thinks their son may be bipolar (was it Sue? I'm sorry, I've been preoccupied and am just now catching up on posts), I think it would be EXTREMELY beneficial for him to get into a good program for dual diagnosis so his mental health c an be assessed and treated along with his addiction. It is a HUGE relief to find out exactly what is going on in your brain and to know that it can be TREATED- that really gave me a lot of hope for the first time in my life. Mental wellness and sobriety go hand in hand- it's pretty much impossible to have one without the other. Not that both have to be completely cured to stay sober or sane, but both issues definitely need to be treated and worked on in order to achieve either mental health or sobriety.

I'm sorry for blabbering on and on about that. I hope what I said made sense and was in some way useful. I've been up most of the night, stressed out about my boyfriend and what I have to do to move this process along and get him released. Without him I am REALLY stuck now that my medicaid (and food stamps and cash assistance) has lapsed as they won't let me reapply without him since they consider me his dependent. This situation is really putting my sobriet y and emotional well-being in jeopardy because I am completely broke, which keeps me from getting to the clinic (so I'm not getting medicated two or three times a week) and is making me have to cancel a psych appointment this morning because I have NO money (I literally have $.25 to my name) and therefore no way to get there... AND no way to pay for my medications (which is out-of-pocket with my medicaid currently not in effect). So all of those things, coupled with the stress of knowing that my other half is in jail, and being inhumanely detoxed from a medication that was saving his life (after seven days of a client being absent, the clinic is required to discharge the client, so he is not only being detoxed- and that's not really the right way to phrase it because they're not helping him in any way, he's just sitting in a jail cell with no medication whatsoever- but he's about to be discharged from our program that was helping him so much FINALLY as well), and not even being able to SPEAK to him ONCE since he's been gone... the stress of a ll of that and trying to get by on my own is really overwhelming me and I'm not sleeping or eating or really functioning very well. I need to deal with getting him released... his fine that he was being held for has been paid, so I now have to figure out what I need to do so that they will release him. Anyway, thanks for listening to that as well... I'm just having a really hard time right now. Ok, I hear little kittens crying (they're only ten days old), I need to go make sure that they and their mother are ok (I'm already attached to one of them in particular- she slept in the pocket on my pajama shirt all night) and then make some phone calls. :worried:

~Jennifer

From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 07:37:33 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

just so that you know... I am proud of you for overcoming so much. I know, for me, when I am at my weakest, others have still looked at me at those times and, believe it or not, say, "you are further along on the path and I look to you and your strength." Well, now I get to say it to you. I see strength in you as you approach your day. Your path IS hard. I am praying for you, that someone close by listens to the prompting of God's love on his or her heart and intervenes in your behalf. You are choosing who you want to be and when you reach the other side of this crisis, you WILL be stronger.

Linda

From: MaryW

Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:53:10 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Does anyone have experience or knowledge of an extended care dual diagnosis

rehabilitation facility? My son has been through quite a few. And honestly,

most of these $10,000 a month programs DO NOT provide the services promised.

My son needs intensive psychiatric (for the issues he has put himself

through to get money) as well as substance abuse treatment. I feel if we

don't tackle one without the other it is all for naught. He is supposedly

going into a local detox facility tonight. The county has a great dual

diagnosis program but there is a 4 - 6 month waiting list. My son will be

dead b then. We need help now He has insurance, provided by a federal

program so it can be applied to any state. Can anyone out there help????

MaryW

From: "Susan L."

Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 15:02:32 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I don't know what State you live in and as I now am a newcomer to Massachusettes, I do not know much up here yet as I took all my treatment in New Jersey. I do have one suggestion though, perhaps you could send him to separate treatments until there is a bed available in a dual treatment facility. You know, send him to even a local Mental Health clinic where at least he will be getting SOMETHING and also to a local Addiction treatment or even if he hooks up with AA/NA groups. At least something will be done while he awaits in patient treatment. It can only help

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From: "barbara smith"

Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:14:41 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

Thanks for you concern. Melissa is doing great. She was in the hospital for stomach problems which she got while drinking the straight vodka from the bottle. It is sort of ironic as I can see her at the rehab yet, as she has to get through a certain level but spent a lot of time in the hospital with her. Pretty ironic, she was quoting AA sayings and a lot about co-dependency which I definitely suffer from. Almost like a scene from that movie "When A Man Loves a Woman". Nicholas is doing fine, adjusting to daycare and being there and finally getting into a schedule. Mike (father) had to take him while she was in the hospital and sorry but he is an idiot. Couldn't wait until she was out so he could send him back. Have a feeling that at the end of her program, it is not going to be Mike and Melissa anymore which in my heart wou ld be the best for both of them. Have a bad feeling he is using cocaine or Crystal meth and they met in a bottle club. Just don't see it working. Need to ask a question though. I really don't know what to do about this. I had a mammogram before she went into the hospital and the day she was admitted, found out they found something there and have to have a diagnostic and ultrasound n Wednesday. I know Melissa, and she will be pissed that I haven't told her but I really don't have much to tell. But even if it is the worst case scenario, I don't want to get in the way of her recovery. Am I doing the wrong thing by not telling her or I am thinking if it does come back breast cancer, calling her counselor and asking her for how to handle this and maybe have a meeting with all of us together. Melissa is a drama queen but she also lost her father 2 years ago from alcoholism at 50 years old. My youngest son is 16 and he will be graduating next year ( the only one in my entire family including myself that will graduate) and he is a realist and I believe he will be fine if the worse happens, but she is weak and don't want to make her recovery harder. Maybe I shouldn't tell her. I am confused and would love your I'm put. Sometimes it seems bad news never ends. Thank you so much for writing me and I know in my heart you are going to be fine. I have made a lot of connections on this site and thank all of you, especially Thom, Deidre, and Carrie. Thanks to all of you on this site. Wishing you well and I will give Thom my private email if you or anybody else wants to chat.

Keep up the good work. Fondly Barb

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:47:12 -0800

To: "Sharon O'Shea"

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Barb,

IMHO the truth is always best. Choosing the best time to share it however is important. Your idea about sharing it with the counselor first makes a lot of sense. Sobriety is not easy. It’s the time we have to live and accept the truth on a daily basis. Life is hard. Using alcohol or drugs does not make it less hard it simply keeps you from thinking about it for a few hours. And often makes it worse because you’ve wasted time avoiding dealing with the problem.

Deirdre

From: "Trina Dalby"

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:03:44 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Well, as much as I never wanted to admit to my addiction to alcohol, it got the best of me and I went into detox, and have been sober for a week. One day at a time and if god is for me who can be against me. I went on a good 2 week drunk with a day or so reprieve when my husband was home, I think. Too many black outs to remember. I have a long way to go, and in my mind and heart, I know I can never take another drink or it will kill me, yet I tend to feel that it could never have happened to me although I know it did. The only thing I lost was my self respect, while everyone around me keeps loving me. But I know there is always a yet, because if I make the wrong choice, I am in trouble. I am confused but have been attending AA meetings and I need them and they help.... Sorry just needed to vent..... Thanks

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From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:58:57 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Trina, I'm still on line at the moment and your email just came in... I want to tell you how proud I am of you. You don't know me and I don't know you and yet, you have one more support person to add to your list

My daughter (age 14) is in a drug rehab in Florida and the program (S.A.F.E.) requires that parents work the AA 12-Steps for help with our "defects." We replace "drugs/alcohol" in the first step (if you are at that point of knowing the program) with the issue we are dealing with. I know the process works because I've used it. I applaud your bravery. Encouarge your commitment. And definitely love and support you.

This message board is a great place to be... you are going to be loved by a whole lot of people.

Linda

From: "barbara smith"

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:08:17 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Trina, one week is a wonderful thing. My daughter age 27 is an alcoholic. She was in three detoxs and ended up with pancreatis that almost killed her. She had to (or has too) hit the very bottom and the bottom is different for each individual. She is now in a detox with her 3 1/2 year old son, program for women and children only. she has been sober since December 28th and I am very proud of her but time will tell. She is now starting to deal with the reasons she drank and that can be pretty scary. Must easier hid behind a bottle to black it all out. Speaking for myself as well as her, problems are still there when we finally come out of the fog. You have picked the best site to be on. So many people have helped me in dealing with my daughter and my own feelings. Just take it one minute at a time, dont even worry about the day. You ha ve taken the first step and that is wonderful. You will get your self respect back as time goes on and I am sure the people that love you, love you because your deserve their love and are a wonderful person. Be strong my friend and put it in God's hands, Wishing you the best, Barb S.

Trina Dalby wrote:

> Well, as much as I never wanted to admit to my addiction to alcohol, it got the best of me and I went into detox, and have been sober for a week. One day at a time and if god is for me who can be against me. I went on a good 2 week drunk with a day or so reprieve when my husband was home, I think. Too many black outs to remember. I have a long way to go, and in my mind and heart, I know I can never take another drink or it will kill me, yet I tend to feel that it could never h ave happened to me although I know it did. The only thing I lost was my self respect, while everyone around me keeps loving me. But I know there is always a yet, because if I make the wrong choice, I am in trouble. I am confused but have been attending AA meetings and I need them and they help.... Sorry just needed to vent..... Thanks

From: "barbara smith"

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:16:14 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

thanks deidre, I know it is important to share this (hopefully there will be nothing to share) with her. Do not want to compromise her sobriety at all. But we are very close and she would be angry and resentful for the rest of her life sober or not, if she was not told. So if the test comes back bad I will call her counsellor and she will help me decide when and how this should be presented to her. Thank all of you for caring. Happy Valentines Day to everyone barb

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:02:07 -0800

To: "Sharon O'Shea"

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Congratulations See if you can get a hold of “Living Sober” book from AA Great suggestions on first weeks and months of sobriety. Keep coming back

Deirdre

on 2/13/06 5:03 PM, Trina Dalby at Discussions@elephantonmain.com wrote:

> Well, as much as I never wanted to admit to my addiction to alcohol,

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:10:18 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Barb,

I certainly hope the tests are negative on Wednesday, but even they're not, don't despair. As I'm sure you know, early diagnosis means an excellent prognosis.

There are many excellent medical options out there, and you'll want to educate yourself as best you can on what they are. Join some online breast cancer support groups and talk to other women about their treatments. Cancer is a frightening word, but once you get over the initial shock, it helps you to focus on how wonderful it is to have the moment you're in.

-Thom

On Feb 13, 2006, at 9:16 PM, barbara smith wrote:

> thanks deidre, I know it is important to share this (hopefully there will be nothing to share) with her. Do not want to compromise

From: "Trina Dalby"

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:13:57 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thank you all for your support. I, like any other addict, thought I was in control. I had to admit after the week before detox, I wasn't and hadn't been for a long time. I am working the steps, but more importantly am looking for a sponsor. My husband has been very supportive as has my church. I have been blessed over and over. I have mentally worked the first 3 steps. The fourth step is what I am mentally working on now. I don't know if I am even close to being ready to take a moral inventory of myself and the things I have done or the lies I have told. But again, my favorite is One day at a time. no promises, just 24 hours. God knows my heart and for now I am content with that. I am still having some mild DTs, but they come and go. One thing I am experiencing is what I am told are "using dreams" They are scaring the daylights, or nightlights rather, out of me. I wake up looking under my mattress to see if I blacked out and bought a bottle of vodka and hid it not remembering........ I have a long journey ahead of me. Thank you all for the support. It means much to me. I will keep coming back. Thank you Deirdre and everyone else. :grin:

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From: "barbara smith"

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:21:36 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thom,

Thank you for the encouraging words. I certainly will check out the websites and thank you for the link. But we are all so lucky to have the moment we are in and if it comes back badly, then I will keep fighting and have a positive attitude thanks to all of you for giving me the chance to realize a lot of things such as live a day at a time and because of all you and myself being open to this site, I am able to cope with things better and accept them for what they really are. If just one of my post touches one person, I will be truly blessed because all of you touched me very much when I was at the end of my rope and I feel that I have made a 360. Melissa is doing well and she is where she is supposed to be at this moment. So I am at peace. Whatever is in store for me, it is not in my hands, cannot change it. Just will handle it best I can. Anyway, from what I was told today from friends in work that I will know a little more tomorrow after the tests. The radiologist will come talk to me and give me the options if it is positive or tell me what they think is going on so I will keep you all posted. Thanks again

Barb

From: DAWN

Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:38:56 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I just came across your website,thank you. I have a 19 year old daughter who has been a heroin addict for 2 years. Right now she is in jail and I thank God for that. I can sleep at night. But my fear is she will get out soon, she has only been in jail for 30 days today. She said that she will be getting out soon and that she will go to an outpatient treatment center. I don't know what to do,I had just kicked her out of the house the first of the year and 20 days later she was arrested. Right now she says she wants to stop doing it but I can't beleive her I know she just wants out of jail. She has know where to go when she gets out, I'm not ready to deal with her. I have been through so much with her and I know that I have enabled her. I don't know what to do. Looking for help

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From: "barbara smith"

Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:07:06 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Dawn, I know exactly how you feel. Your life is somewhat normal with her locked up. You know you will have no phone calls or bad news and can sleep soundly. Maybe a group would help you such as Al-Anon. They help you realize that you really need to detach. Not stop loving but just detach yourself from them. The worse thing you could probably do is let her back in your home. She needs to hit bottom (whatever bottom is for her) Isnt is pretty sad when you are happy they are in jail or in rehab because that is the only time you have some peace and know they are safe for the moment. I personally would tell her, if you are ready to get clean and sober, I will be there for you, if not I cant help you. It will be the hardest thing you will ever do but what options do you really have. You can let her wreck havoc in your live and make you sick in the process. That is what I did. Stopped eating, lost too much weight and started looking a lot older than I am. Signed the papers to out her into rehab with my grandson for 5 months to a year and best thing I could have done for both of them. Hopes this helps a little bit. If you want to talk you can get my email from Thom or just post and I will respond. Keep coming back to this site, it is wonderful, ask Thom what a mess I was when I first found this site and how far I have come. You will be in my prayers

barb s.

From: "Carol Levine"

Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 04:48:05 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Dawn

Check out this site www.safeorlando.com. I put my son in the center when he was 20. He about to commense after 14 months. He was on herion too along with many other drugs. It has saved his life. Plus it was given me a support group and taught me how to stop enabling and letting him stand on his own. He went from 30 days in jain straight to the center. I had a Marchman act waiting for him. It's a tough program for both family and addicts but it works. Good luck

From: "barbara smith"

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:57:04 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Mary, I am from Florida so it might be different here but I thought each state had a different name for it. Down here it is Marchman Act. Sometimes called Baker Act. I believe that all you need to do prove that the person is harmful to herself or to someone else and go before a judge and they issue the orders. I was lucky because we were involved with Stewart Marchman Treatment Center before it actually came down to having ger court ordered. She went in voluntarily and was going to leave and that is when we had to have her court ordered. Her 60 days are up and she will be going back to court on the 19th and she was already told they were going to keep her another 60 days. Mary, let me know what state you are from and maybe I can do some research or speak to some of her counsellors and see if they know anything that can be done. There is help out there. Just most of the time, it is not well known and peopl e just give up. Best thing that happened to her although she still has a long road ahead of her. But without this place, there wouldnt even be a road ahead of her. Keep me posted and let me know what state you are in. Take care

barb smith

From: "barbara smith"

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:05:20 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Susan, that is not true, As I was telling Mary, not in this state anyway. You have to be a parent, or 3 people have to go before the judge and explain why this person is dangerous to herself or others and then the judge decides. My daughter didnt even have any insurance outside of share of cost Medicaid and she got in there and they have helped her get full insurance and before she gets out they help get her get a job, set up a bank account and apply for housing.

Maybe it is just in florida, dont know but thank God for the program and that they decided to court ordered her.

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:25:12 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Well Happy St. Patrick's Day everyone. Duncan is out celebrating his 17th birthday. My last St. Patty's day celebration was about 18 years ago. Hard to believe.

So what's up with everyone? Jennifer, still at parents? Thanks for the HEP C site, there's still not enough awareness of the potentially deadly disease. I just was sent a flyer to attend a rally by city hall in May for HCV awareness. Apparently May is Hepatitis C awareness month. Just thought I'd make you all aware. :sheepish:

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From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:20:15 -0800

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: What's your story?

Hi Deirdre-

Happy St. Patrick's Day to you as well (a little belated). Six years ago I

was in Ireland right now... definitely an interesting place to be for St.

Patrick's Day. Since I went to an alternative high school, there was no

senior trip for me or anything (well, I didn't even have a senior year, I

graduated after three years), but my school was located on the campus of the

local community college, so we were allowed to take courses there for high

school credit and participlate in college activities. Well, one of the art

teachers organized a trip to England, Wales, and Ireland and I decided to go

because I was obsessed with the idea of seeing the world, travelling. I

went with my grandmother and actually paid for the trip myself. It's

amazing how much you can do when you're not using... that was before i ever

touched any drugs. That was definitely one of the best things I ever did

for myself, going on that trip... it was incredible... even though I spent

most of the trip crying... LOL. Teen angst. I can appreciate it in

restrospect though. I always think about that around this time of year.

Anyway... yes, I am still at my parents' house. I'm not sure what to do.

We're getting along alright now, but they want me to make a "decision" about

whether or not I am going to stay here permanently. That's not something I

can really decide because I don't know what to do. I love my boyfriend and

want to be with him... it's just too hard for me to be there right now while

he is using and getting himself into trouble. He got himself arrested again

the other day (he was released a few hours later) AND kicked off the

clinic... he's on a fourteen day administrative detox. All because a

security guard kept accusing him of spitting out his methadone into a bottle

everyday. Now, John is responsible for most of the trouble he gets himself

into... I know that... but this clinic thing is just ridiculous. I was

standing there two of the times that this guard accused him of doing this,

and I can tell you FOR SURE that he did not do that, he had *nothing* in his

pockets to spit his methadone into. His dose was too low still since he had

to start over after being in jail... so he was always feeling sick. He

certainly wasn't going to sell the measley 30mgs he was getting. He didn't

make the situation at the clinic any better, of course, as he was blowing

off counseling and group sessions and being arrogant and rude when they

would talk to him about the accusations... he just provoked the security

guard even more. It almost seemed like he wanted this to happen. It is SO

frustrating watching someone destroying their life like this. I don't know

what is wrong with him, why he has suddenly become so self-destructive. He

told me that he knows he's going to die or end up in prison anyway, so he

might as well just do what he wants. I love him so much, but I was

constantly afraid that the police or someone else would show up at the door

or that he wouldn't come home one night or something like that. I still

drive myself crazy with worry for him now that I am at my parents' house,

but I'm not afraid for my own life and safety and freedom, so it is less

stressful. I don't want to end my relationship with John... I just can't be

there while he is doing this. If he wants to get his life back on track and

get clean and physically and mentally healthy, I will be there for him in a

second. There's nothing I want more than for him to get it together so we

can go on with our life together, our plans for the future, etc. I want to

be supportive, but I can't live with him right now. However, I feel like my

parents may force me into going back there even though they want me to stay

here so desperately... and they don't even see that they are doing it. They

have all of these conditions on me staying here... which doesn't make a lot

of sense to me because they practically *beg* me to stay, yet at the same

time they're telling me all of these ridiculous things i have to do in order

to stay. Does that make any sense? It doesn't to me. For instance, I have

to cut off all contact with John and end our relationship permanently...

they monitor my phone calls, bother me when I'm on the computer, won't let

me go out with anyone other than them, when my dad takes me to the clinic he

watches who I talk to and only gives me five minutes to go in and out to

ensure that I won't spend time talking to John if he's there... they told me

that they are going to get rid of the internet access because it is

"unhealthy" for me to talk to all of you "fake" people online instead of

having "real-life friends". Plus, all of my online friends, as far as my

parents are concerned, tell me that the things I am doing are ok (like being

on methadone, thinking that I am clean when I'm really not, according to

them, etc) and that needs to stop. ARGH They say they want me to have

real-life friends, but they wouldn't let me go out with friends of mine...

they told me if any of the "pieces of shit" that I am friends with come near

their house they will physically hurt them. I feel like I have stepped

right back into being 16 years old again instead of 22. And, of course,

they constantly harass me about getting off of methadone. And they even

nitpick at little things... like my mom tells me how often I have to wash my

hair If I don't shower by a certain time every day she freaks out, etc.

They tell me what to wear, tell me what to eat, every little thing. Now, I

know they have every right to set the rules in their home. That's fine.

But I don't understand why they are doing that when they supposedly want me

to stay so badly... they're kind of backing me into a corner, forcing me to

go back home to John... but at the same time they're telling me how much

they love me and how happy they are that I am here. I want to stay for a

while, give John time to figure out what he wants to do with his life and

hopefully to get himself together... but I can't stay here under these

conditions. So far we're getting along great because I am shutting up and

doing what they want, but I don't know how much longer I can take it. I

really love them and it's been great to be with my family again, especially

with my brother. But I've been living on my own since I was 19... I don't

think I can go from that to living under this dictatorship here... it's just

demeaning, really. It makes me feel like they think I can't think for

myself or make good decisions about the smallest things. Anyway, my mom

just called and said she'll be home soon and wants me showered before she

gets here, so I have to end this. I don't know what to do. I'm open to any

and all advice. Please? :)

~Jennifer

------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michelle B."

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:53:08 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jennifer,

I missed the post you wrote about living back w/your parents. It took a lot of inner strength to realize you couldn't be around John right now. You did the right thing and I admire your courage. Your parents are being unrealistic to think you'll be staying there permanently. Do you have any girl friends you could get a place with? I hope John works out his problems, until then start making little goals for your self. Maybe your parents will back off if they see your concentrating your energy on Jennifer? Are you going to school or working? Are either an option for you? I remember your post about needing to get to the clinic and not knowing how because John was incarcerated, you found a way however bumpy, you found your way.

On a personal note...I had a car accident several years ago, which just recently settled out of court. I was almost afraid to receive the compensation for fear I would abuse it. I my self a wknd at a nice hotel , a massage and updated my wardrobe a bit. I even enrolled in the local college, although, that is all I accomplished, so far. It seems they want to overwhelm me with prerequisites and testing/testing/testing I just want to take one class online. After an all day affair of "chatting" w/too many people, I was exhausted. There is another day, I am not a quitter. I'm currently working on my debts, which is overwhelming all by it's self. Baby steps, one step at a time. I keep having to remind my self.

Anyway, I do hope you let us know how things are going. No one can force you to do anything and you know that. If there is an alternative (and there always is) you'll find it.

Michelle

----------

From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 01:34:30 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hey everyone... I wanted to update you on what's been going on in my life. Basically, staying with my parents and having things going well was too good to be true. I stayed there for about a month, but I'm back in Philly with John now. I've been back a little over a week. Things just turned into a huge nightmare and my parents kicked me out of the house.

One Monday, my dad and my mom both took a day off and they both took me to the clinic and then we were going to have lunch in the city and go do some other things my mom wanted to do in the city. So I was actually in a good mood and looking forward to the day. But my parents took FOREVER to get out of the house so they didn't get me to the clinic until the last minute, and I knew that John had a window time (which means you can only get medicated at a certain time- for him it was between 2:30 and 3:00, when they close) and that I'd end up getting there during that time. Of course, John was there, but he staye d to the side of the building because he knew my dad was sitting in the parking lot. Unfortunately, my dad apparently saw me go around the side so i could give John a hug and a kiss. I went inside the clinic for maybe three minutes and as I was walking out our friend, Billy, who is staying with us at the moment, was running in the clinic telling them to call the police. I knew my dad had done something, so I ran outside and my dad was running back to the car and John was laying on the ground with blood *everywhere*... I ran over to him and someone threw him a knife and he tried to go after my dad, but I managed to restrain him because he was pretty hurt and blood was just pouring out of his nose and the rest of his face. Well, my parents knew the cops were coming so I got dragged back to the fucking car by my mother and we took off. And my dad was so fucking pleased with himself, laughing and going on about how much John deserved that for destroying his family, bla, bl a, bla. Meanwhile, how much doing what he did would upset me and my m om never crossed his mind. I was so upset that they had to pull over so I could vomit... I was shaking and crying and had John's blood all over me. It was a nightmare. My mom didn't say a word until we were almost back home (needless to say our day out in the city didn't happen after that) and then she started telling my dad that he preaches at me about sobriety but that he obviously knows nothing about how sober people behave. I was really proud of her for finally saying that to him. Unfortunately, he won't take it seriously because all of his AA friends are macho, chest-thumping idiots like my dad who think what he did was great. Anyway, after that, all of a sudden my mom snapped and started screaming at ME, saying how it was all my fault, that because I'm such a fucking junkie that my dad gets sucked into to taking me to get my "daily fix" and that I put him in a position where he had to do something like that and bla, bla, bla. She said all I do is bring drama int o their lives and told me that I couldn't come home with them. I WANTED to stay with John because he was so hurt, but she fucking dragged me back in the car, saying that I belonged at home with them, etc. And because I love my dad I didn't want to see him arrested, so I went with them so he could leave before the police arrived. And what did I get in return? Kicked out of the fucking house. They left me at my grandmother's that day and took me home a few days later (they thought I should stay at my grandmother's, but that wasn't an option and they knew it- I had no way to get to the clinic from there because they gave her a new car and my dad said that if she EVER let me drive it or took me to the city in it he would take it back or never work on it again if she had a problem- not to mention that my grandmother can barely support herself, nevermind me). and on the ride back here, my dad just went on and on about how I broke my mom's heart by leaving her, that she was a t home crying, etc. HOW DID I DO THAT?? They kicked me out, wouldn 't let me come back home, not even to get my stuff. My mom threw all of my stuff in a trash bag and sent it with my dad. I was devastated. I wanted to stay with them... but I was stupid to think it could work. And they say I broke her heart? They broke mine... for the millionth time. The two people who were really getting hurt were me and my brother, like always. He was just starting to show how happy he was to have me back home, just starting to stop being afraid of loving me for fear that he'd lose me again and be hurt... my parents told me that he was the happiest they had seen him in years while I was there. And then they took me away from him... yet told me what a terrible person I was for hurting him again by leaving. And he hasn't spoken to me since because he doesn't know the real reason that I had to leave. They wouldn't let me speak to him. And they're not talking to me now either. I haven't heard one word from them since my dad brought me back here. I let down my guard and really started enjoying being a family again and then they threw me out of it. My grandmother, who is VERY timid and doesn't get in other people's business, actually told them how wrong what they were doing was, so now my mom isn't speaking to her own mother either. And my grandmother cries on the phone with my everyday because her daughter hates her so much... and my mom said some really hateful things to her, things that have nothing to do with me, just judging her for things that happened long before my mother was even born and telling her what a lousy wife and mother she was. My grandmother is the best friend I have... she is the best person I know. She is the closest thing to an angel that there is here on earth, I can't even tell you what a huge, loving, gentle heart she has. And because of me my mom is hurting her too.

Anyway. So now I'm back with John. It's been going ok, but not great. I'm glad to be back with the man I lov e, back with my cats and the kittens, back in the city, etc. But I'm watching John's life fall apart in front of me and there's nothing I can do about it. The night I got home, I came in the back door and John and Billy didn't hear me come in, apparently, because when I opened my bedroom door I caught them in here smoking crack. I wanted to just kill myself right then. But it hasn't happened since. However, John got himself kicked off of the clinic and yesterday was his last day... and his counselor was supposed to transfer him somewhere else but that didn't happen. So what do I have now? Maybe one day before John's so sick that he's back doing dope? He got himself arrested AGAIN while I was in NJ, so we've been to court dealing with that. And I don't know what to do to help him.

On top of that, we have Billy living with us because he lost his place to live, and I felt bad so I said he could come stay. But now we're stuck supporting him because he has no income, and we have *nothing* as it is. We just went FOUR DAYS with no food. It's crazy. We pay for his food, cigarettes, give him a place to live, john even paid to pick up all of his psych meds the other day. John and I are already a mess ourselves, we didn't need a third mess living here, but it's too late now.

I don't know what to say... I am at the lowest point that I've had in a LONG time. I really just keep wishing that I would die because I see no way to fix anything. And I have nowhere else to go, btw, as you asked, Michelle. I have NO friends at all... no girlfrends. An ex-sort-of-boyfriend of mine offered to let me stay with his girlfriend (well, she offered) for a little while down in delaware, but that's not a solution. I might do that to get away for a few days if I ne ed to, but I can't stay with them... they spend all of their time shooting coke. Plus, once again, I'd have no way to get to the clinic everyday. I do

----------

From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 01:35:38 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

SORRY, too long again, last little bit (thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to sift through my ramblings):

I don't know what to say... I am at the lowest point that I've had in a LONG time. I really just keep wishing that I would die because I see no way to fix anything. And I have nowhere else to go, btw, as you asked, Michelle. I have NO friends at all... no girlfrends. An ex-sort-of-boyfriend of mine offered to let me stay with his girlfriend (well, she offered) for a little while down in delaware, but that's not a solution. I might do that to get away for a few days if I need to, but I can't stay with them... they spend all of their time shooting coke. Plus, once again, I'd have no way to get to the clinic everyday. I don't know... I don't know what to do. I'm just going day by day, trying to enjoy the little things like just walking outside in beautiful weather, holding John's hand, feeling like everything is ok for just that instant.

... now I'm off for one more little thing that I enjoy. started watching the new Sopranos season (I'm addicted- i guess that show is especially special for those of us who are New Jerseyans) while I was at my parents' so I downloaded the latest episode since I don't have cable here and I'm going to watch it now.

~Jennifer

----------

From: polly1283

Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 17:50:45 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

I have just been catching up with the site and read your last posts and I am almost speechless Your family situation is bad enough, but your life with John is not a piece of cake either I have not been on the site much lately because my 86-yr old father has had another heart attack, is in a nursing home now and is not getting better - he is dying and it hurts me more than I could have ever imagined. I have been driving back and forth to Ohio and have been on a real downer lately.

But, when I return home, I catch up and never seem to have time to reply to anyone or post anything new. You, however, are important to me and I am so very sorry to hear about your situation. Jennifer, if you ever needed your strength it is now. You are literally between the rock and the hard place and you need to hold on to the inner core of you - the place that makes you the Jennifer you have worked so hard to find. Don't let go, don't give up. It is your life, not your mom's, your dad's, your brother's or John's. It is yours to keep safe, yours to grow. You are very bright, use that ability, that intelligent mind to find a way out of this bad situation. I will pray for you and watch for your posts and hope that you will survive. Be strong, my dear.

Polly

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From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:47:11 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

I've been thinking about the situation with your brother from time to time today as I went about various activities; I just read the update to your story, however. I think you've got to get out of both of those situations ? your family and John ? and start fresh. Once you take care of yourself, your relationships with your family and John will resolve themselves. Deirdre is going to check into a woman's program in Arizona that might be a good fit for you, but you should investigate other alternatives be beneficial for you. You've got so much to offer, but right now you're being dragged down by hitching your wagon to the vagaries of other people who are wrestling with their own demons. I just saw Michelle's extraordinary offer to you. Consider it. You're a very caring person, but you won't have anything to give to others if you don't take care of yourself first.

-Thom

Thom Forbes

4 Ridgedell Ave.

Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706

voice: 914.478.5048

fax: 914.478.5064

On Apr 2, 2006, at 5:35 AM, Jennifer Romano wrote:

> SORRY, too long again, last little bit (thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to sift through my ramblings):

> I don't know what to say... I am at the lowest point that I've had in a LONG time. I really just keep wishing that I would di e because I see no way to fix anything. And I have nowhere else to go , btw, as you asked, Michelle. I have NO friends at all... no girlfrends. An ex-sort-of-boyfriend of mine offered to let me stay with his girlfriend (well, she offered) for a little while down in delaware, but that's not a solution. I might do that to get away for a few days if I need to, but I can't stay with them... they spend all of their time shooting coke. Plus, once again, I'd have no way to get to the clinic everyday. I don't know... I don't know what to do. I'm just going day by day, trying to enjoy the little things like just walking outside in beautiful weather, holding John's hand, feeling like everything is ok for just that instant.

> ... now I'm off for one more little thing that I enjoy. started watching the new Sopranos season (I'm addicted- i guess that show is especially special for those of us who are New Jerseyans) while I was at my parents' so I downloaded the latest episode since I don't have cable here and I'm going to watch it now.

> ~Jennifer

----------

From: "Thom Forbes"

Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:50:42 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I'm sorry to hear about your dad, Polly. I hope that Ben continues to

do well, and that his progress is a source of comfort for both of you.

-Thom

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From: "Michelle B."

Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:15:10 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

BTW Jennifer, since I wrote you 3/20 and your only now responding, I want you to know you have friends. We create what we fear and you've done that well. Everyone here cares for you. You can articulate with the wisdom of someone far beyond your years. I fear,like Polly, that you've made a terrible decision by returning to John.

I'd like to extend an invitation to you to share my little place. There are places of employment within walking distance, there are buses, and I am sure there are Meth clinics somewhere close by. I would be willing to help you out of this tunnel. But you have to be willing to accept help, and begin to take care of Jennifer. You can't continue to expect "someone" to take care of you. You've potential that I can only dream of. Please consider the offer.

Michelle

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From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:05:30 -0800

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I just deleted a message I was working on for 20 mins. So forgive me if this is very blunt and short but I'm tired and have to get up about 5:30.

There is a solution. Take Michele's offer. If you need bus fare I'm sure we can raise the money for that here. John is not only hurting you but you are hurting John. For him to possibly get better, he needs you to leave, just as you've told others. You are swirling in chaos. Typical addict life. Forget about the "buts..."

Your life is not progresing right now it's going backward. That's no way for an intelligent, caring, lovely young woman to behave. Start moving in the right path.

Deirdre

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From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:56:48 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jennifer,

I've been reading your postings and though I haven't responded until now, I do care for the person you have allowed us to get to know and agree with everyone... step back, disengage, focus on you and your worth because... you are so worthy. What a horrifying experience to have to be dealing with... and Jennifer... I pray you have the courage and strength to step off that stage.

I feel concerned, alarmed, sad, disappointed, and fearful for you in this situation because those you are counting on to help you with your health are stealing your peace.

I love you and support you and encourage you to consider two short term goals that you can achieve that will help you in this situation.

Linda

From: "Michelle B."

Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 15:37:17 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer,

I thought about you often today. I'm not surprised by your lack of response and hope your not overwhelmed by what is being written by others.

At 16, I was released from a halfway house that I was assigned to after being released from a State Mental Hospital. They knew I had no where to go but my time was up. With no place to go, I sat on Lemmon Ave in Dallas with all my belongs, some sketches and a few clothes. I could have gone to Turtle Creek, a place I had shot and sold meth a thousand times but I was lost within me. I knew I couldn't keep doing the drugs but had no home base, no support, no one that gave a shit about a little skinny 16 yr old kid. I was broken. Sitting there, as darkness was falling, I looked up and saw a billboard about a runaway hotline. I thought I didn't even qualify for that because no one was looking for me. I walked away to save my sanity. To preserve my self. But I was falling through the cracks. I bummed th e change to call the hotline. Not knowing what to expect, within 30 min a new Camaro (the car of the day) pulled up and this beautiful lady asked me if I had called the hotline. Saying yes, she asked me if I'd like to get a bite to eat. That was the beginning of a lifelong friendship.

We or I should say, I ate and she nibbled, we discovered many similarities. She loved art, music, writing...She took me some place where she thought I could stay but they refused me because they thought I was on drugs. In fact, it was 1-2am and I just fell asleep. She got me a hotel room and the rest is history.

I got on my feet, I have stumbled and I have got back up many times. I understand where your at, Jennifer. I want to help, that's all. I want to offer you an opportunity for you to help your self. Call it a sister help a sister.

I have supporting documentation (however yellowed with age) that I am not gay or have an alternate agenda other than to offer you a place to stay. Life is one step at a time, make your next step with stability. Your in the belly of the beast right now and your so fragile. We are all fragile, Jennifer, this site has provided a safe place to vent our frustrations, hurt, and knowledge. There are as many people reading as writing here. We all need hope. We all need each other.

"The heart has reason, reason knows nothing of"

Michelle

From: "Jennifer Romano"

Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:03:46 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Wow, thank you so much Polly, Thom, Michelle, Deirdre, and Barb, for the amazing responses. Not that I should be surprised, I already know you are all wonderful. :) Oh, and I wasn't intentionally not responding today... I just got home around 7:30pm and am just now checking my email. Also, Michelle, it took me so long to respond to your post to me from 3/20 because I was at my parents' house and I couldn't come to this site except when I could sneak on the computer while everyone was asleep. Anytime I'd try to use the computer while I was there my dad would follow me in the basement and stand looking over my shoulder until I was done. My parents were VERY VERY adamant that I stay away from this site and all of you "fake people" (fake because we talk online) because they think you are all bad influences for letting me believe that anything I do in my life is the right thing. They'll never understand that we just listen and learn here and share suggestions and thoughts without judging each other. Whatever. That's not important. I just wanted you to know that i was not intentionally neglecting to respond, before or today.

Deirdre, you are absolutely right about everything you said. And don't worry about being blunt, I need to hear things that way sometimes for it to sink in. I've given other people advice and I am not at all taking my own advice... and that hadn't even occurred to me until you said it. I guess it's hard to see things clearly when you are caught up in them- it's impossible for me to see my situation objectively as I would someone else's. Well, I'm kind of trying to look at it that way now after reading what you said- wondering what I would tell someone else who was in my position. And I know that I would tell them to leave and take care of themselves. I am definitely caught up in the chaos that addiction causes, and it's incredibly frustrating what I'm not the one who is using... gives me a new perspectiv e on what is going on what my family went through.

Michelle, I have to say that I was speechless after seeing your incredibly generous offer. That is an amazing thing to offer to do to help someone. I don't know what to say to express my gratitude for the offer. And I want you to know that I am seriously considering it. Really. I know I have to get out of the situation that I am in.

I have, actually, been working on some other possibilities to help me get out on my own. My parents actually have offered to help me find my own apartment and help with rent and bills. I have thought about it, but I don't know if it's a good idea to give them a way to have some sort of power over me. Does that make sense? Do you guys think I am wrong? Should I consider their offer to help in order to get out of where I am now? I could really use some advice on that.

I have also been looking into a non-profit here in Philadelphia (where i actually volunteered last year for the service-learning portion of one of my courses) that owns a number of apartment units in a building (that happens to be in the nicest, most expensive area of the city) that are for low-income WOMEN only. They deal with women who are homeless, women with mental health issues, women with substance issues, etc. And the way it works is that they base your rent on your income...and with my current income only being from welfare I would pay peanuts. My counselor at my clinic has been helping me look into this. From what he says, they do not allow drug or alcohol use and they do not allow men. I thought that that might be a really good place for me to go to... it would give me a chance to have my own apartment, while also being around other recovering women and women who arejust working on being on their own and building lives for themselves (i think my cat knows I am typing about leaving here because he just walked up to me and chomped down on my hand- lol). I also thought it would be a safe environment because even if I wan ted to I couldn't allow John to come stay with me. Of course, there a re MANY people that want to get one of these apartments, but my counselor is working on it for me so that may help. And if i did that, then I could go back to school and start working on developing my OWN life, one in which I don't have to depend upon anyone else to support me.

I also have had a friend offer to let me stay with her for a little while... that might be a temporary solution. She isn't an addict or anything, she's a "normal". :) But she is dating my ex-boyfriend, which is how we met, so I don't know how that would work out. The other option I have is to stay with my grandmother... and I know she wants me to do that, but I feel like I would be placing too great a burden on her... not only financially, but in other ways. It would *destroy* what is left of her relationship with my mom and she would constantly be tortured by my parents- she lives less than a mile from them and anytime I'm there they CONSTANTLY come around and spy on us to make sure m y boyfriend isn't there, to make sure she hasn't let me use her car, etc. And I don't want her to have to deal with that because I know how much it upsets her.

So I have a number of option, and, Michelle, thank you SO MUCH for giving me another GOOD option. I really can't even explain how much it means to me to know that you would be willing to help me in such a major way. Opening your home to someone takes an amazing amount of generosity. I have a lot of thinking to do to figure out which thing would be the best for me.

I know you said there should be no "buts," Deirdre, yet I can't help but have some anyway. I feel like moving away from the area would be completely and utterly abandoning my brother, leaving him stuck to deal with my parents and his issues all by himself when I know he counts on me for support. We've been so excited about him starting college in the fall because he will be here in city and we'll be able to spend more time together . I know that me moving out of my parents' house broke his heart, and I don't know if he would ever forgive me if completely left him. And then there is my grandmother. She also depends on me- we really lean on each other for emotional support. She lost her relationship with her daughter (my mom) because of ME, so how can I leave her too?? I'm the only one she has left here. But those things only apply to leaving the area...

Then there is what makes it so hard for me to leave John at all.... to be completely honest, I don't even want to live if I can't be with him. Every plan I have for my life, everything I want involves him. I feel like I would have no reason to live if he wasn't in my life. I know that is completely and utterly unhealthy and codependent... but how do i get past that?? I've been so depressed lately and I feel like I might as well just kill myself if I don't have John. I know the healthy thing to do would be to leave and worry about myself for now. And then if he DOES ever get his life together, we could re-evaluate our relationship at that point. But knowing that logically, in my brain, doesn't change what I feel in my heart.

I don't know... I am just really confused right now. I need to do some serious thinking and evaluating.

Thank you all again for the support. And Polly, I am so sorry to hear about your father. How is Ben doing?

Also, I know that MY issues are really what I need to focus on right now, but I am still curious if anyone has any thoughts on what I posted about my brother......? You said you had thought about it, Thom, but then read my other post- any thoughts you can share?

~Jennifer

From: "Michelle B."

Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:36:39 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Jennifer, I was just going to bed, so good to read from you and know you've found more options than the other day. Maybe by today's standard it's "an amazing thing to offer to help someone" but I don't think it should be. The offer stands. We don't know each other in the real time sense but trust me we do. You'll be okay, if you could slow down on those (_x_)'s - my goodness you have many. I can see your mind covering all the bases, outfields and parking lots well past home. Trust your intuition, and remember your not alone. :)

Michelle

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From: polly1283

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:42:47 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi Jennifer

I was happy to hear that you have some viable options now It is so good to know that good people do exist who are willing to help someone in need. I applaud you, again, for sticking to your objective to remain clean and to make a life. You have so very much to offer others.

Ben is doing well in his college classes 2 A's and a B at midterms. He left his job with the trendy little retail shop and took another with Holiday Inn at the front desk. He makes twice the money and the hours fit in well with his school schedule. He finished Drug Court last Thursday and that means that his 2 felony cases will be dropped to misdemeanors and he has satisfied his obligations to the court. He will be under probation for a year yet. He told me yesterday that he has now 6 months clean. I am happy about all of the above, but still find myself waiting for the boom to fall. I can't help but be apprehensive and I find that I do better if I don't hover ove r him. He needs to learn to live and I need to let him and remind myself to let go. It is hard.

My Dad is still in the nursing facility (I hate that term "nursing facility"). I have kept tabs on him from here, but I know that I cannot stay away too long. I am the oldest child and happen to be my Dad's favorite, so he looks for me to be there. He is holding his own, so far, but he is not eating and not able to get out of bed. I really hate that he is missing his favorite time of year, the spring. So, I am in limbo, waiting for ????

whatever happens next.

I find all of this to have taken a toll on me.

I have lost my "zest" - or whatever you call it. I look at my father and see myself in a few years. My heart hurts for my father, for my son, for my sister and brothers. Well, on that happy note, I will pray for you, Jennifer, and hope you find your way to a better life, you so deserve it. I will be reading but don't know when I will get back to the site.

Polly

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From: Hope619

Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 06:31:34 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Michelle B.,

I was struck in my heart, and tears welled up as you described the hand that was held out to you. It is your story, or anyone's story who desperately wants to change that motivates people like myself to work in an industry that has little financial reward, but more importantly burns you out. I am almost toast myself and your words have been medicine to me. The work is worth it.

From: "Michelle B."

Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:47:59 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Thank you, Hope, for your kind words. It's funny, I almost hit the delete button after writing that. Remembering that lanky teen, was emotional for me, too.

What is it you do, Ms Hope. Do you work with kids? In what capacity? Your right, the financial rewards are not found working in a social service field, my bank account and meager belongs reflect that. When you share your days experience with another, they look at you like your crazy and ask why you do it and you think, if they have to ask, they don't understand. Or so has been my experience. Please, post more when you can.

Jennifer, how are things going? I've been looking for an update (when I can get online.) I have to get rid of this dialup/my ISP. I feel I could add AOL Tech to my resume

Michelle

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From: Hope619

Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:23:20 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Michele B.,

We all have to think about our inner child at times. I suppose it's an interesting time for me to look at or remember mine too. When my oldest son/ (& youngest too) went to college, I packed them up with a favorite photo I had of each as a child, and told them to take good care of our little guy because the world is a tough place and now that they were grown up, they needed to accept that responsibility. But I think I forgot to remember. Too much to go into, but while I was trying to put my hand out to give another a lift, I let my boundaries slip.

No I don't work with children. I know that would be a minefield for me. Everything I do is directed toward them though --while staying a safe distance away. My philosophy is to help a child, I need to help their parent. That's is with whom the child wants the relationship. When I first got into the "helping" arena, I had a tribe at home and a full time job, but my friend and I kept talking about doing something to prevent child abuse. We both had witnessed the way parents were treating children in public, so we shuttered to think what went on at home. She was the genius who found a group already formed in the Southwest who dealt with the prevention aspect. We got more information on it and wanted to bring it to our area. We already volunteered at an incredible shelter (in the Northeast) and proposed that as it was already a well-known non-profit, they might consider putting our program under their umbrella. So it went, and is still in existence and has had considerable growth since then. That was a nice memory to recall. Thanks for asking. That was an example of when I paid attention to boundaries. I now work in the most hypocritical field I can think of. Healthcare. And its not the patients who burn me out. We give lip service to taking care of ourselves. I'm sorry I can't go there just yet. I'm angry, confused, resentful, exhausted and still I can't stop understanding the poor "perp." A lot of toxic people work in healthcare.

Anyway I am going to keep my screen open to your first line. Because today a thank you of any form is like milk with warm honey. God Bless You.

I'm not going to proof this, so I hope its understandable.:)

From: "Michelle B."

Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:01:45 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

No need to prove anything, Hope. Re toxic people in healthcare, if you've seen the national news of 6-7 Florida Detention Officers beating 1 teenage boy in a boot camp - to death, and there was a nurse standing by. My point being, there are many toxic people in all professions. Although, I think I understand a little of what your going through.

Someone recently made a comment, I've often forgotten to remember my own self, you can't take care of any one if you can't take care of your self. Please, make a special effort to do something for your self. Even if that is a small honest comment to a co-worker, if that is impossible, I look forward to your comments here.

Thanks for the blessing, Michelle

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:20:56 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

I discovered something interesting about myself recently, speaking about the healthcare industry. At a staff meeting it was mentioned that an oversignt organization was recommending that rather than accept less reimbursement for normal inpatient detox stay, they would reduce the stay--who cares if a shorter stay benefits the patient when it benefits the pocketbook. At this same meeting it was announced that a member of the staff had just been let go for complex reasons even she was aware of it was numbing to most and since I shared a bit of her work a bit scary for not knowing exactly what would fall my way from her desk.

As I sat there it was obvious I was upset to others, particularly my boss who asked if I had concerns I would like to address regarding the staff member's firing. Spontaneously I replied that I wasn't upset with that situation, "life happens," I said. "She'll land on her feet." And while there was laughter from others in the room because of my ligh t hearted reaction, I finished up my statement that I was really "upset about the detox situation." Someone else in the room mentioned how this would mean some hospitals would have to close their detoxes. I replied to that with "It means people are going to die because of this."

After the meeting I returned to my office and called Thom. I had to choke back the tears because of my upsetment over the detox news. Later I questioned whether something was wrong with me considering I was so emotionally shaken by the news of the reduced inpatient detox time and really not concerned with a collegue's dismissal.

Deirdre

From: "Linda Becker"

Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:08:11 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Deirdre, if I may say...silly you.... No, nothing is wrong with you. Caring for those who are in need? It is my belief that you are feeling and doing exactly as your higher power intended it to be.

Right now, if others were not standing beside me to help share the load, I would not be making it. I believe that we all find ourselves in a "needy" situation from time to time...some more, and longer than others... it's all relative to time and place and living life on life's terms. I applaud you your sensitivity. And, I share in your grief. News like this just makes me more committed to the path that I am on... one day at a time. May that give you some comfort. You are definitely not alone as it is my belief that we all share in each other's successes and grieve in the setbacks because we are connected. The world is what it is and we can only choose who we want to be in it. I think that is our purpose in life. That choice.

I haven't posted in a while because I've been plowing through what's been before me. Jennifer, know that you have been in my prayers... and to all of you who have been posting... know that I have been taking it all in... and appreciate you sharing your lives.

I'm the mom with the 14 year old in treatment at SAFE in Orlando, FL. The good news is the process of the program is phenominal; my daughter has been drug free for nearly 7 months and with the tools she is learning... she is actually helping me work my program... not being co-dependent, setting boundaries, holding me accountable... making changes. The hard part is that I am setting boundaries with my 23 year old son at the same time and he is not open to the changes. It hurts. I'm disappointed, heartbroken, and overwhelmed yet know that I don't have a choice for my welfare, my daughter's welfare, and his welfare. I decided he must leave home at the end of this semester unless he changes his mind on two critical issues. I'm asking him to go through the training required to be around the clients in the program because I am opening up a host home (parents house the clients) so that my daughter can start coming home. It's critical that those who are in contact with the clients understand the communication process and how to do the 12 step moral inventory. He's insensed to say the least. My other issue is his pot use, and by living at home, with no expenses, any earned money on his part certainly isn't going into a college fund or gas fund to get to school (forgive my dry humor). And, I can't be sending out mixed messages... to my daughter... work your program... and to my son... acceptance of his chosen lifestyle.... on me (meaning my earnings pay for all household expenses).

I had clients home last week and asked him to not be home... he made sure to tell me that he hopes I'm happy with my choice to put him out on the streets. Ok, I recognize the manipulation finally. It doesn't make holding to my boundaries any easier. I always waffle... I realize the impact of my decision on him yet, it's not like I'm springing it on him. He still has tuition, he still has options... and, I've headed in this direction for 7 months and finally have the strength to hold to this boundary. It's also the boundary that my daughter will have... no drugs in my home. I support sobriety and am open and loving... I just can't accept life on their terms any more, no matter where that leads them. Drugs have stolen my family from me and, for my part, being co-dependent has stolen their opportunity to grow. I see it now. And, in standing up to make the change has made me a target... lots of barbed words.. yet, I feel good about what I am willing to accept for myself... and glory be, I'm only 52.

I read the postings on this site and know that much more lies ahead of me... gosh, a wave of melancholy just washed over me... yet... I too am taking one day at a time and making it. This truly is a family affair. I welcome any thoughts. Linda B.

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From: Hope619

Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:03:04 -0700

To: discussions@elephantonmain.com

Subject: Re: What's your story?

What great advice, I wish I had thought about it rather than doing what I did. I yelled so loud that someone joked they heard me on the next floor. I went to work feeling great and then I received 3 heartfelt " thank you's" from 2 patients and families and one compliment from my director who I respect enormously. I had thought of calling several times over the weekend to give my resignation, but today I just showed up and things seemed possible again. But midday I was attacked again, and I just couldn't get a grip on my tongue. This individual" brings out a little street fighter in me. I stated that I will do anything at any time when I am instructed, but I refuse to be treated disrespectfully or accused of things that are not true. This person did their best to try to intimidate me, but I held my ground and slammed out of the office. After lunch a patient who was in crisis presented themself to our office and I brought the patient back to "homeostatis" or calmed them down and took care of business. My boss called me in and bestowed many compliments on me for my caring professionalism but I reiterated that as caring as I can be does not mean that I'm a patsy. Anyway the long and short is "crisis averted" for now. But I have been getting many valuable lessons in this thing called codependency and "burn-out". I am not proud of the way I handled myself, but I am so proud of me for standing up for my dignity and respect. Thanks for your support Michele. I usually don't vent like this, but I think I have been putting out more than I have been filling my own tank. Now for you, can you share what you are up to? You seem like a good person who knows the joy of gratitude. & yes I did hear about the beating. Unbelieveable Have a good night.

From: "Deirdre Drohan Forbes"

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:19:31 -0700

Subject: Re: What's your story?

Hi everyone.

Today was a gorgeous spring day in New York. The sky was a piercing blue with just the right number of white clouds to set it off. The temperature rose to the 70's for the first time I can remember this year. And the streets were filled with people in all states of undress, or at least "less-dress." I'm aware I work about a block away from Central Park but we're usually so busy we work straight through til the day ends. But on Thursdays I see my therapist who's on the other side of Central Park, so I'm forced to get out of my office and the building.

When I got to his office, the only thing I could say was "I hate this weather." I don't expect most people to understand that statement. On